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Thread: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

  1. #101
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Cole View Post
    Am hearing this claim a lot. Can you cite (or point to) some details of exactly what Obama has proposed in the way of cuts to "Medicare and other social programs"?
    Here are the highlights of Obama's Deficit Reduction Plan:


    The policy highlights in the President’s framework build on the down-payment included in his FY 2012 Budget. They include:

    * Non-security discretionary spending: The President is proposing to build on the savings from the FY 2011 budget agreement, while investing in key drivers of economic growth like energy innovation, education, and infrastructure. This would entail cutting non-security discretionary spending to levels consistent with the Fiscal Commission, saving $770 billion by 2023.
    * Security spending: The President’s framework will go beyond the Fiscal Year 2012 Budget to achieve deeper reductions in security spending. It sets a goal of holding the growth in base security spending below inflation, while ensuring our capacity to meet our national security responsibilities, which would save $400 billion by 2023.
    * Health care: The President’s framework builds on the Affordable Care Act by including new reforms aimed at further reducing the growth of health care spending – a major driver of long-term deficits. The President opposes any plan that would simply shift costs to seniors and the vulnerable by undermining Medicare and Medicaid. Building on the foundation of the historic deficit reduction achieved through the Affordable Care Act, the framework would save an additional $340 billion by 2021, $480 billion by 2023, and at least an additional $1 trillion in the subsequent decade. These savings complement the new patient safety initiative that could lower Medicare costs by another $50 billion over the next decade by providing better care. The President’s framework includes initiatives that will:
    * Bend the long-term cost curve by setting a more ambitious target of holding Medicare cost growth per beneficiary to GDP per capita plus 0.5 percent beginning in 2018, through strengthening the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB).
    * Make Medicaid more flexible, efficient and accountable without resorting to block granting the program, ending our partnership with States or reducing health care coverage for seniors in nursing homes, the most economically vulnerable and people with disabilities. Combined Medicaid savings of at least $100 billion over 10 years.
    * Reduce Medicare’s excessive spending on prescription drugs and lower drug premiums for beneficiaries without shifting costs to seniors or privatizing Medicare. Combined Medicare savings of at least $200 billion over 10 years.
    * Other mandatory spending: Outside of health care, comprehensive deficit reduction must include savings in other mandatory programs, including agricultural subsidies, the federal pension insurance system, and anti-fraud measures, while protecting and strengthening programs that serve low-income families and other vulnerable Americans. The President’s framework includes a target of $360 billion in savings from other mandatory programs by 2023.
    * Tax reform: the President is calling for individual tax reform that closes loopholes and produces a system which is simpler, fairer and not rigged in favor of those who can afford lawyers and accountants to game it. The President supports the Fiscal Commission’s goal of reducing tax expenditures enough to both lower rates and lower the deficit.
    * Social Security: The President does not believe that Social Security is in crisis nor is a driver of our near-term deficit problems. But, in the context of an aging population and a Social Security wage base that is declining as a share of overall earnings, Social Security faces long-term challenges that are better addressed sooner than later to ensure that the program remains for future generations the rock-solid benefit for older Americans that it has been for past generations. That is why the President supports bipartisan efforts to strengthen Social Security for the long haul. These efforts should be guided by several principles, including strengthening the program and not privatizing it, improving retirement security for the vulnerable while protecting people with disabilities and current beneficiaries, and not slashing benefits for future generations."

    See further details at website:
    FACT SHEET: The President's Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility | The White House
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  2. #102
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    The problem is the teaparty thats running the GOP right now arent negotiating a deal...they are demanding what they want and refuse to negotiate on anything other than precisely what they want....thats not putting forth a deal...that is merely making demands.....the teaparty is clearly the problem with these debt negotiations..

  3. #103
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Who says thaty don't?
    Once more in English?
    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Guess you didn't do your homework, in 2008, they ran Roger Calegro for President. How come the Tea Party won't do that?
    You asked for an example of a Democrat who's a socialist who ran as a Democrat. That you don't address your own question means again... you don't want to answer. More dishonesty? I'm surprised [/sarc]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    What they are not ... are members of the Socialist Party.
    They were according to the DSA - that's the Democratic Socialists of America website... More denial. Again... color me surprised[/sarc]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    The Socialist Party runs candidates from their party. The Tea Party runs candidates as Republicans.
    The Tea Party isn't a political party... did you miss that the first two times when I first stated it, then proved it? Oh that's right, a Florida Democrat registered the Tea Party as a 3rd party and therefore, that makes it applicable everywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    Fair enough, he is now a registered Tea Partier and I apologize for getting that wrong.
    Well, it just shows that you didn't do your homework...

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    I read he was a registered Republican, but according to the link you posted, he was until he switched in 2005 to the Democrat Party because he was unhappy with the war in Iraq; before switching to the Tea Party in 2009. Still, wrong is wrong and I was wrong to say he "is" a Registered Republican.
    It just goes to show you can't believe everything that you read and you need to "trust but verify".

    And let's get back to the point of all this... you asked, basically, why doesn't the Tea Party have the balls to run as a Tea Party. You implied that they have to disguise themselves as Republicans. You answered your own question and didn't even know it. Since you pointed out the Tea Party in Florida registered as a 3rd party - they ARE running as a 3rd party to Republicans in Florida.

    Florida Tea Party

    So locally it's happening in Florida.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  4. #104
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    That's a dodge.
    If the debt was as bad as the conservatives say it is, why oh why, are countries willing to buy it? If you had too much debt, you couldn't get a loan with an interest rate even close to the current ones.
    I have nothing to dodge... the buck stops with Obama just as it stops with every other President. What's a dodge is you making some Obama exception by continuing to make excuses. That's called BS spin, especially when the Progressive faithful make every excuse in the book so Mr. Obama doesn't look bad.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #105
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Here are the highlights of Obama's Deficit Reduction Plan:


    The policy highlights in the President’s framework build on the down-payment included in his FY 2012 Budget. They include:

    * Non-security discretionary spending: The President is proposing to build on the savings from the FY 2011 budget agreement, while investing in key drivers of economic growth like energy innovation, education, and infrastructure. This would entail cutting non-security discretionary spending to levels consistent with the Fiscal Commission, saving $770 billion by 2023.
    * Security spending: The President’s framework will go beyond the Fiscal Year 2012 Budget to achieve deeper reductions in security spending. It sets a goal of holding the growth in base security spending below inflation, while ensuring our capacity to meet our national security responsibilities, which would save $400 billion by 2023.
    * Health care: The President’s framework builds on the Affordable Care Act by including new reforms aimed at further reducing the growth of health care spending – a major driver of long-term deficits. The President opposes any plan that would simply shift costs to seniors and the vulnerable by undermining Medicare and Medicaid. Building on the foundation of the historic deficit reduction achieved through the Affordable Care Act, the framework would save an additional $340 billion by 2021, $480 billion by 2023, and at least an additional $1 trillion in the subsequent decade. These savings complement the new patient safety initiative that could lower Medicare costs by another $50 billion over the next decade by providing better care. The President’s framework includes initiatives that will:
    * Bend the long-term cost curve by setting a more ambitious target of holding Medicare cost growth per beneficiary to GDP per capita plus 0.5 percent beginning in 2018, through strengthening the Independent Payment Advisory Board (IPAB).
    * Make Medicaid more flexible, efficient and accountable without resorting to block granting the program, ending our partnership with States or reducing health care coverage for seniors in nursing homes, the most economically vulnerable and people with disabilities. Combined Medicaid savings of at least $100 billion over 10 years.
    * Reduce Medicare’s excessive spending on prescription drugs and lower drug premiums for beneficiaries without shifting costs to seniors or privatizing Medicare. Combined Medicare savings of at least $200 billion over 10 years.
    * Other mandatory spending: Outside of health care, comprehensive deficit reduction must include savings in other mandatory programs, including agricultural subsidies, the federal pension insurance system, and anti-fraud measures, while protecting and strengthening programs that serve low-income families and other vulnerable Americans. The President’s framework includes a target of $360 billion in savings from other mandatory programs by 2023.
    * Tax reform: the President is calling for individual tax reform that closes loopholes and produces a system which is simpler, fairer and not rigged in favor of those who can afford lawyers and accountants to game it. The President supports the Fiscal Commission’s goal of reducing tax expenditures enough to both lower rates and lower the deficit.
    * Social Security: The President does not believe that Social Security is in crisis nor is a driver of our near-term deficit problems. But, in the context of an aging population and a Social Security wage base that is declining as a share of overall earnings, Social Security faces long-term challenges that are better addressed sooner than later to ensure that the program remains for future generations the rock-solid benefit for older Americans that it has been for past generations. That is why the President supports bipartisan efforts to strengthen Social Security for the long haul. These efforts should be guided by several principles, including strengthening the program and not privatizing it, improving retirement security for the vulnerable while protecting people with disabilities and current beneficiaries, and not slashing benefits for future generations."

    See further details at website:
    FACT SHEET: The President's Framework for Shared Prosperity and Shared Fiscal Responsibility | The White House
    That's a good start. At least provides some framework for discussion. Hopefully there are some red meat details behind those platitudes for actual analysis/scrutiny of a granular plan.


    “Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.”

  6. #106
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    You asked for an example of a Democrat who's a socialist who ran as a Democrat. That you don't address your own question means again... you don't want to answer. More dishonesty? I'm surprised [/sarc]
    No, I asked for a Democrcat who's a member of the Socialist Party.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    The Tea Party isn't a political party... did you miss that the first two times when I first stated it, then proved it? Oh that's right, a Florida Democrat registered the Tea Party as a 3rd party and therefore, that makes it applicable everywhere.
    Creating a strawman so you can beat it up doesn't help your position. I never said because it's a political party in Florida means it's applicable everywhere, I said that the Tea Party can register as a political party in every state, just like they did in Florida.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post

    And let's get back to the point of all this... you asked, basically, why doesn't the Tea Party have the balls to run as a Tea Party. You implied that they have to disguise themselves as Republicans. You answered your own question and didn't even know it. Since you pointed out the Tea Party in Florida registered as a 3rd party - they ARE running as a 3rd party to Republicans in Florida.

    Florida Tea Party

    So locally it's happening in Florida.
    Hmm, but weren't you saying those aren't real "Tea Partiers," that they're really Democrats. So the only Tea Partiers in the entire country with stones to run as Tea Partiers are in one state and they're former Democrats? Is that right?

  7. #107
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Sheik Yerbuti View Post
    No, I asked for a Democrcat who's a member of the Socialist Party.
    Look, we don't really care about Socialists Internationale and whos registered like in Sweden, etc. We got our own context here and some dems are socialist and some just regular. You might not like the context, but no one cares about some international designation of horse crap. For a US politician to openly identify with or register with a socialist organization would be political suicide. We don't like 'em here but we figure we got a few of our own sort, if you could mind context.

    Arguing the semantics of socialist is grasping for understanding, and annoying.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-20-11 at 10:49 AM.

  8. #108
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I have nothing to dodge... the buck stops with Obama just as it stops with every other President. What's a dodge is you making some Obama exception by continuing to make excuses. That's called BS spin, especially when the Progressive faithful make every excuse in the book so Mr. Obama doesn't look bad.
    Of course it was a dodge, it was a nonsensical answer you gave to my post. It's quit possible I know something you don't. Debt is a function of two things: spending and income. So you need to show where all of the debt incurred since he became president is spending.

    Also, if the debt was as bad as conservatives say it is, how come nations buy our debt at historically low interest rates?


  9. #109
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    The fact that tea party types have to run as a Republican rather than honestly build a true political party and call it the Tea Party, is simply evidence of how disingenuous they are and how they only want short term power and have no real interest in building a real political party. I would say the same for libertarians like both Pauls who despite their status and the official pin-up boys for libertarianism, run as Republicans. I guess a run on the Libertarian ticket for President and getting his clocked cleaned taught Ron Paul the lesson of his life.
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  10. #110
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    Re: Poll: 71% shun GOP handling of debt crisis

    Thier lack of interest organizing as an actual political party shows they have no interest in building a political party.

    Wow.....

    :slow clap:

    That's some breath taking logic there. Did you know the people who score the most points in football win the game? Are you related to John Madden?

    Next you're going to tell me that the Anti-War Movement wasn't interested in pushing a broad political ideology but were simply for pushing anti-war policy. Your insight is astounding.
    Last edited by Zyphlin; 07-20-11 at 03:49 PM. Reason: stupid ings

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