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Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

dolphinocean said:
The same argument would apply when our government back in Feb 1993 began a siege with intense gun battle on its own citizens at the “religious” compound of david koresh’s branch davidian that lasted 50 days, resulting in the death of 20 children with a total of 75 deaths. During those 50 days, were you out there screaming against the govt to prevent this strategy of re-classification?

Yet, there was nothing in koresh’s sacred book that called for beheading and killing of non-believers and renegades. But there are plenty of open ended violent commands in the quran and the ahadith that commanded muslims to behead and kill infidels (non-believers) and Jews wherever they find them. Not only that there wasn't any branch davidians members going about killing innocent civilians or flew suicide planes into high rise buildings in the name of their god as did the fanatic muslims all over the world and many times over.

The same argument could also be made of the persecutions by the US govt against jim jones’ peoples’ temple that drove him and his flock to seek asylum in Guyana. Yet, there was nothing written in jim jones’ sacred books that called for slaughter of non-believers, none whatsoever as compared to the numerous calls for violence against infidels in the quran and ahadith. Not only that, prior to the investigative visit by a US congressman and his team to Guyana there wasn't any jim jones' followers going about killing innocent civilians or flew suicide planes into high rise buildings in the name of their god as did the fanatic muslims.

If congress would have the guts to call for a hearing regarding the religious status of islam based on what were written in the quran, the ahadith and other Islamic scriptures that calls for violence against innocent people, and compare the behavior of muslims that turned devout and violent, they will find that the behavior of muslims or even converts that turned violent is consistent to the teaching of the quran, the ahadith and other Islamic scriptures, even to the letter. Recent case in point is the Little Rock murder case of American muslim convert adulhakim muhammad. Yet, there are countless muslim converts that turned violent when they were religiously delusioned into the evil of islam.

If Congress would find that islam is not a religion but a violent cult, then the First Amendment issue won't be an issue the same way the cults of david koresh, jim jones, charles manson, marshall "Do" applewhite (heaven's gate cult), etc wouldn't be a religious or First Amendment issue.

I can only do my best to warn you to save America and the Western civilization. You can either investigate and do your own research diligently or close your eyes to stand with the “religion” of evil. If things go in your way, there would be bloodshed and perpetual unrests for our children. With that, it makes me appreciate and understand more clearly why the ancient Israelites suffered the violent consequences at their enemies’ hands when they refused to heeds the warnings given by God.
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it then appears you recognize the fallacy of referring to religious organizations as cults to deprive them of their Constitutional protections
 
I respect Cain for speaking the truth, for actually saying what so many Americans would love to say, but can't, thanks to the oppression of Political Correctness.
 
ElCid said:
I respect Cain for speaking the truth, for actually saying what so many Americans would love to say, but can't, thanks to the oppression of Political Correctness.
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You know I'm more worried about radical far right reactionary Christians like you trying to take over America than I am Muslims. There is no danger of Sharai in America, but based on your posts and what I've studied of the Christian Reconstructionism and Domionist movement there is a danger of those like you trying to implement Mosaic Law. So maybe we should ban the Catholic Church and other Christian Churches? The answer to that question is no. Your religion has just as much right to exist as Islam does and I view them both the same as ridiculous superstitions.
 
Some people just don't get it. Islam that backs Sharia in any way is a CULT and they hate women and their rights, the rights you have to practice your religions.

They promote violence against anyone who doesn't agree with them, however in public they will swear up and down to be people of peace, and when they can they will strike and will not be pretty.
 
Councilman said:
Some people just don't get it. Islam that backs Sharia in any way is a CULT and they hate women and their rights, the rights you have to practice your religions.

They promote violence against anyone who doesn't agree with them, however in public they will swear up and down to be people of peace, and when they can they will strike and will not be pretty.
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And this goes for every single muslim on planet Earth?
 
Councilman said:
Some people just don't get it. Islam that backs Sharia in any way is a CULT and they hate women and their rights, the rights you have to practice your religions.

They promote violence against anyone who doesn't agree with them, however in public they will swear up and down to be people of peace, and when they can they will strike and will not be pretty.
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No, I'm afraid it is you who do not get it. There are over a billion Muslims in the world. They have their holy book, written millenia ago, filled with contradictory stories of violence and living godly lives. There are two billion Christians in the world. They have their holy book, written millenia ago, filled with contradictory stories of violence and living godly lives. There are millions of Jews in the world. They have their holy book, written millenia ago, filled with contradictory stories of violence and living godly lives. There are also about 4 billion Hindus, Buddists, and others practicing various religions around the world. I don't know what kind of holy books they have.

But I do know this. If they live in the USA their right to practice their religion... be it Christian, Judiasm, Hindu, Buddist or Islam... is a constitutionally protected and guaranteed right. They have the right to practice their religion just as you have the right to practice yours.

It amazes me that some people believe Freedom of Religion only includes their own belief systems and nobody elses. Sheesh.
 
Councilman said:
Some people just don't get it. Islam that backs Sharia in any way is a CULT and they hate women and their rights, the rights you have to practice your religions.

They promote violence against anyone who doesn't agree with them, however in public they will swear up and down to be people of peace, and when they can they will strike and will not be pretty.
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Sexism is common in many christian circles, I went to a Southern Baptist school supported by the Southern Baptist convention and they preached sexism from the pulpit. As for restricting religious freedom and other civil liberties there are many branches of Christianity that advocate that. The Christian Reconstructionist and Domionist movements advocate it. We have a poster on these very forums who supports those movements. I think you can all guess
There are several christian groups that advocate violence against non-believers. Here is one example of a movement that is ripe to evolve into terrorism: 'Arming' for Armageddon | Southern Poverty Law Center .
 
ElCid said:
I respect Cain for speaking the truth, for actually saying what so many Americans would love to say, but can't, thanks to the oppression of Political Correctness.
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So many?

No, you anti-Americans who are against the 1st amendment are a small, noisy minority. Thankfully. That same amendment guarantees your right to write what you just wrote. You can believe Islam is a cult, that's your right. Cain crossed a line, though. He spoke out against a fundamental principle on which this country is founded. See, he didn't just say Islam is a cult. He said the first amendment doesn't count.

And you're agreeing with him.
 
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Deuce said:
So many?

No, you anti-Americans who are against the 1st amendment are a small, noisy minority. Thankfully. That same amendment guarantees your right to write what you just wrote. You can believe Islam is a cult, that's your right. Cain crossed a line, though. He spoke out against a fundamental principle on which this country is founded. See, he didn't just say Islam is a cult. He said the first amendment doesn't count.

And you're agreeing with him.
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Don't you know the First Amendment only applies to Christians. When it is applied to anyone else then Christians are being oppressed.
 
ElCid said:
I respect Cain for speaking the truth, for actually saying what so many Americans would love to say, but can't, thanks to the oppression of Political Correctness.
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It's amusing you want to elect a president who has openly made statements that would render his oath to uphold the Constitution a lie on his first day in office.

Before it was Jews. Then it was Catholics. Then Mormons. Now it's Muslims. It's amusing that some of the most hateful people are highly religious.
 
Deuce said:
No really, by all means, continue to look for loopholes in fundamental rights so that you can justify your persecution of others.
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Haven't we already justified persecuting of the cults of jim jones, david koresh and the likes of charles manson? have you not live with that?
 
liblady said:
i want plenty of questions answered before we allow baptist churches to be built. see how that works? your candidate is a bigot. why am i not surprised that you support him?
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So, I gather you support the building of the likes of Waco worship compound and jim jones' worship training ground where members were secluded and monitored?
 
justabubba said:
it then appears you recognize the fallacy of referring to religious organizations as cults to deprive them of their Constitutional protections
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If that's the case, then you should recognize jim jones' people's temple and david koresh's branch davidian as legit religions. Do you also accept Japan's Aum Shrinrikyo which was responsible for Tokyo subway sarin gas murder attack as legit religion?
 
DiAnna said:
No, I'm afraid it is you who do not get it. There are over a billion Muslims in the world. They have their holy book, written millenia ago, filled with contradictory stories of violence and living godly lives. There are two billion Christians in the world. They have their holy book, written millenia ago, filled with contradictory stories of violence and living godly lives. There are millions of Jews in the world. They have their holy book, written millenia ago, filled with contradictory stories of violence and living godly lives. There are also about 4 billion Hindus, Buddists, and others practicing various religions around the world. I don't know what kind of holy books they have.

But I do know this. If they live in the USA their right to practice their religion... be it Christian, Judiasm, Hindu, Buddist or Islam... is a constitutionally protected and guaranteed right. They have the right to practice their religion just as you have the right to practice yours.

It amazes me that some people believe Freedom of Religion only includes their own belief systems and nobody elses. Sheesh.
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So, you think that the Aum Shinrikyo group which was responsible for the sarin gas murder attack in Tokyo Subway and violent "religious" groups like that should just have the right to practice their religion in this country?
 
dolphinocean said:
So, I gather you support the building of the likes of Waco worship compound and jim jones' worship training ground where members were secluded and monitored?
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Your strawmans are Hilarious, what does any of this mean to American Muslims that live in open
Society?
 
dolphinocean said:
Haven't we already justified persecuting of the cults of jim jones, david koresh and the likes of charles manson? have you not live with that?
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Let's review your three "cults." The People's Temple was not persecuted in reality only in Jone's mind. The people who wanted to stay in the compound were allowed to stay and no force would have been used against them. They left the U.S. because a lot of newspapers started investigating the allegations against Jones, but that isn't close to what you want done with Islam. David Koresh
I'll give you, we shouldn't have got involved in that. However the Branch Davidans are around today though in smaller numbers. Manson? Really you consider prosecuting for horrible murders to be persecuting?

Oh, that doesn't hold up either as none of the members of the Family not linked to the murders were persecuted and for months continued their devotion to Manson. Oh, and we tolerate cult groups all the time, not that Islam fits the sociological definition of a cult that you are trying to apply to it.

For example we let the Moonies operate in the U.S., we let Scientology operate, etc. Your opposition to the rights of Muslims is nothing, but a blatant disregard of the 1st Amendment. It also shows your ignorance of how we handle various "cults" if you think the above listed were persecuted.
 
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U.S. Socialist. said:
You know I'm more worried about radical far right reactionary Christians like you trying to take over America than I am Muslims. There is no danger of Sharai in America, but based on your posts and what I've studied of the Christian Reconstructionism and Domionist movement there is a danger of those like you trying to implement Mosaic Law. So maybe we should ban the Catholic Church and other Christian Churches? The answer to that question is no. Your religion has just as much right to exist as Islam does and I view them both the same as ridiculous superstitions.
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There are plenty of muslim countries for you to try out your conviction. What not give it a try for a few years and do what you would do as a freedom loving person that you've been doing here and then see what happen.
 
dolphinocean said:
There are plenty of muslim countries for you to try out your conviction. What not give it a try for a few years and do what you would do as a freedom loving person that you've been doing here and then see what happen.
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There is no danger of Sharai Law in the U.S. However, the Domionist movement is a threat to my freedom and it is far more likely to gain power than Islam is. The other countries you reference do not matter as we are discussing the U.S. and thus we should follow our Constitution and not change our laws just because other nations are bad.
 
Jetboogieman said:
Your strawmans are Hilarious, what does any of this mean to American Muslims that live in open
Society?
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It has nothing to do with it. He is just your typical far-right Islamaphobe who has no tolerance for any belief system aside from his own.
 
What is your guarantee for the future given the violent outcomes turning up in Europe? And that was just the beginning
 
Jetboogieman said:
Your strawmans are Hilarious, what does any of this mean to American Muslims that live in open
Society?
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The people of jim jones, david koresh and charles manson would also live in open society if we would allow them like we allow people of islam. It's just a matter of the fact that over the centuries islam got a pass and has managed to be a "religion" by culture and number.
 
U.S. Socialist. said:
Let's review your three "cults." The People's Temple was not persecuted in reality only in Jone's mind. The people who wanted to stay in the compound were allowed to stay and no force would have been used against them. They left the U.S. because a lot of newspapers started investigating the allegations against Jones, but that isn't close to what you want done with Islam. David Koresh
I'll give you, we shouldn't have got involved in that. However the Branch Davidans are around today though in smaller numbers. Manson? Really you consider prosecuting for horrible murders to be persecuting?

Oh, that doesn't hold up either as none of the members of the Family not linked to the murders were persecuted and for months continued their devotion to Manson. Oh, and we tolerate cult groups all the time, not that Islam fits the sociological definition of a cult that you are trying to apply to it.

For example we let the Moonies operate in the U.S., we let Scientology operate, etc. Your opposition to the rights of Muslims is nothing, but a blatant disregard of the 1st Amendment. It also shows your ignorance of how we handle various "cults" if you think the above listed were persecuted.
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Likewise for the muslims. They were not persecuted in reality only in their islamic mind. They believed the West is great satan out there to get them like they believed their prophet was persecuted by the meccans. Did we treat jim jones' "religion" as a legit religion with 1st amendment right? Of course not, otherwise he and his members won't have to live the comfort of their homes and families to go into the foreign jungles for survival. They would have hire a lawyer, even free from some lib law organiztion such as ACLU to defence vigorously their right.

none of the members of the islamic faith not linked to the murders were persecuted also and for their lifetime continued their devotion to the violent ideology of islam, yet islam is treated as a "religion" protected by the first amendment, but manson's helter skelter wasn't.

We may tolerate cults, but not one that advocated violence. That's the difference. Where in Scientology did they call for violence against unbelievers? When was the last time you heard some scientolgists flew a plane full of innocent civilians into the tall buildings full of innocent people? Can't you even differentiate the difference?
 
dolphinocean said:
Likewise for the muslims. They were not persecuted in reality only in their islamic mind. They believed the West is great satan out there to get them like they believed their prophet was persecuted by the meccans. Did we treat jim jones' "religion" as a legit religion with 1st amendment right? Of course not, otherwise he and his members won't have to live the comfort of their homes and families to go into the foreign jungles for survival. They would have hire a lawyer, even free from some lib law organiztion such as ACLU to defence vigorously their right.

none of the members of the islamic faith not linked to the murders were persecuted also and for their lifetime continued their devotion to the violent ideology of islam, yet islam is treated as a "religion" protected by the first amendment, but manson's helter skelter wasn't.

We may tolerate cults, but not one that advocated violence. That's the difference. Where in Scientology did they call for violence against unbelievers? When was the last time you heard some scientolgists flew a plane full of innocent civilians into the tall buildings full of innocent people? Can't you even differentiate the difference?
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Whats all this "they" about hmmm?

SO you're saying every single last muslim believes the west is the great satan... all of them?

Even these ones...?

American+Muslim+Day+Parade+Winds+Through+New+QDv0Yf8bSTwl.jpg


Or are they just doing this to fool us?
 
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