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Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

ElCid said:
I love Cain's blunt honesty. He's a damned good man.
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A "good man" who is dead-set against a fundamental principle of this country.

If you can ban mosques, you can ban churches. You want to give anyone, government or otherwise, that ability?
 
This guy has no chance...
 
Deuce said:
They manage to rationalize it.
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If he was consistent, he'd have no problem with any president ignoring the COTUS. Somehow I doubt that. Consistency here is liking find huge gold nuggets in a river that's been panned since the California Gold Rush. Sure it happens, it's just ridiculously rare.
 
DiAnna said:
Unbelievable. I'm repeatedly dumfounded when hyper-religious individuals demonstrate an utter lack of understanding and regard to the meaning of "freedom of religion" in this country. What a jerk.
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It's not "freedom of religion", it's freedom of their religion.
 
Deuce said:
So... when people hold up signs quoting Leviticus re: homosexuality, they're wrong?
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If you read and understand the Bible you will know that Leviticus is a historical account about ancient Israelites and their religious practice, which were held to the highest standard. In general, there is also a universal standard of right and wrong for all human beings. Most of which are written in our heart so that there is no excuse for one to claim that he/she doesn’t know what’s right and wrong. You may deny it but deep within you know the truth. The Bible doesn’t lay down the punishment for the gentiles except for one as laid down to Noah: God will demand an accounting for the life of another human being. That doesn’t mean there is no punishment for all other moral wrongs. Those are to be addressed by the court of justice set up by righteous people.

Leviticus and other OT scriptures such as Numbers and Deuteronomy were ancient account about ancient Israelites and their religious rites and laws that they and only they, had to follow. As such, the ancient Israelites were an entirely different matter. They were chosen and set aside by God to be His people as light to the world. As God’s ambassador, they were held to the highest standard. In addition, during Biblical times, God were with them. Since God is holy, the consequences of breaking God’s laws in His very presence were for the Israelites serious matter. Other tribes that were not Israelites didn’t have to observe the Hebrew rites and laws and thus were without the punishment unless it is a direct offence on God.

Since the ancient Israelites are no longer living in this days and age, and since the Temple in Jerusalem had been destroyed by the Romans 2000 years ago, the ten tribes of Israel, including the priest class, were dispersed and lost, the only remnant left is the tribe of Judah, which is the modern day Jews. As such, the Leviticus rituals and laws cannot be carried out.

Now, back to your question, those people holding up signs quoting Leviticus, is it wrong? It depends on what the sign was referring to. If it was referring to the fact that God viewed man lying with men as if a woman is wrong, then this moral view of God is also supported by Genesis where God said, man “is united to his wife, and they become one flesh”. Paul in the New Testament also covered such topic for the Christians.

Therefore, the punishment for homosexuality in Leviticus only applied to the ancient Israelites. For the gentiles and Christians who disobeyed, you can acknowledge your wrong and repent, or you can face judgment later after life. You may not believe it, but this is what the Christians believe. True Christians who tell you that homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of God do so without malice to save your soul.

In islam, as practiced in some islamic country, you will be hanged if stand accused of homosexual activity. Muslims still practice stoning women for adultery. Modern day Jews don't practice such detestable things, that's the difference.
 
Deuce said:
A "good man" who is dead-set against a fundamental principle of this country.
If you can ban mosques, you can ban churches. You want to give anyone, government or otherwise, that ability?
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It's a myth our Founders had universalism in mind when they created this country's government. They had a European, Christian society in mind. IMHO (no trolling or threatening here), Islam is alien to the United States. That's just my opinion. If I have to be 'punished' for expressing it, so be it.
 
Cain speaks truth, which is all but outlawed in America today. He has the guts to speak the truth into America's great 'lie-making machine': television. How dare he? Aren't we all supposed to believe in the exact same, unofficial creed of America today? Aren't we all supposed to be PC robots, as dictated by what we're told by the television?
 
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obvious Child said:
But in terms of applying the law to our systems, you cannot force anyone to abide to moral guidelines of their religion via the legal system, so it wouldn't even be applicable to the American Judicial system. In terms of the other stuff, the Constitutional clearly states that the government cannot favor one religion. By subverting the secular rule of law for specific Islamic Legal Laws, that's pissing on the Bill of Rights. As I see it right now, the outrage over Sharia becoming US law is a gross misunderstanding of what the Bill of Rights says. We do no practice Jewish Law (well there is Rabbinical Court, but that's outside of our system). This really seems like ignorance or fake outrage.
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If you aren’t ignorant, then you should be able to do a quick comparison check to know the difference.

A true religion doesn’t kill a renegade, a cult do. In islam, a deserter must be killed according to its sharia law.

A true religion can withstand criticism, a cult can’t and will kill for their pride. We all know how extensive the violent mayhem occurred en mass in Islamic countries when some one drew a cartoon of mo, or burnt a quran, or merely criticize the cult of islam. At least the cult practice usually go after the ones who did the offense, but in islam, muslims go after innocent people who had nothing to do with the offense others caused. So, in this regard, islam is worst than a cult.

A true religion does not set an example and approval for an old man with one foot in the grave to take a 6 or 9 year old little girl as wife, some cult might, such as David Koresh’s Branch Davidian. David Koresh took little girls for wives but just for him and not for his followers. In islam, many old muslim men took young girls in their early teens as wives according to the example set by mo.

A true religion does not condone a man taking many wives; some cults do, such as David Koresh who married several women besides young girls. In islam, muslim men are allowed to many up to four wives, though mo had more than four ( more than 19). His excuse is that allah gave him special privilege.

These are just a few.
 
dolphinocean said:
If you aren’t ignorant, then you should be able to do a quick comparison check to know the difference.

A true religion doesn’t kill a renegade, a cult do. In islam, a deserter must be killed according to its sharia law.

A true religion can withstand criticism, a cult can’t and will kill for their pride. We all know how extensive the violent mayhem occurred en mass in Islamic countries when some one drew a cartoon of mo, or burnt a quran, or merely criticize the cult of islam. At least the cult practice usually go after the ones who did the offense, but in islam, muslims go after innocent people who had nothing to do with the offense others caused. So, in this regard, islam is worst than a cult.

A true religion does not set an example and approval for an old man with one foot in the grave to take a 6 or 9 year old little girl as wife, some cult might, such as David Koresh’s Branch Davidian. David Koresh took little girls for wives but just for him and not for his followers. In islam, many old muslim men took young girls in their early teens as wives according to the example set by mo.

A true religion does not condone a man taking many wives; some cults do, such as David Koresh who married several women besides young girls. In islam, muslim men are allowed to many up to four wives, though mo had more than four ( more than 19). His excuse is that allah gave him special privilege.

These are just a few.
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was wondering where you were headed with this
you want to present that those of the islamic faith are not actually practicing their religion but are instead found to be cult members
and the first amendment does not provide for freedom of cults

but what is to prevent this strategy, this re-classification of a particular brand of religion, to be instead deemed a cult from also being used to insist that mormons, or mennonites, or quakers are not protected by the first amendment because they would be found cults and not religions
 
ElCid said:
It's a myth our Founders had universalism in mind when they created this country's government. They had a European, Christian society in mind. IMHO (no trolling or threatening here), Islam is alien to the United States. That's just my opinion. If I have to be 'punished' for expressing it, so be it.
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No, They didn't. Their ideas were based in Enlightenment ideas among which was a rejection of traditional religious authority. Were many of the Founders Christian? Yes, but they had no desire for your pure Christan culture, a culture that has never existed by the way.

Jefferson said "Believing that religion is a matter which lies solely between man and his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legislative powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their Legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church and State " and "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.Or how about this also authored by him, the Virgina Statute for Religious Freedom: Bill for Religious Freedom

Thomas Paine was ostracized for his scorn for Christianity and religion. In the Age of Reason he says: "All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit." Age of Reason: Age of Reason, Part First, Section 1


As for Islam being alien to America, well there were Muslims in America since before it was founded. Granted, most were slaves, but they were still here.
 
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dolphinocean said:
If you aren’t ignorant, then you should be able to do a quick comparison check to know the difference.
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Try again.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But with less fail. kthxbye.


Btw:

re·li·gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

The only difference between a cult and a religion is spelling.
 
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obvious Child said:
Try again.

No true Scotsman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

But with less fail. kthxbye.


Btw:

re·li·gion
   /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled[ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

Religion | Define Religion at Dictionary.com

The only difference between a cult and a religion is spelling.
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Well to them the difference is a a cult is any religion they don't like.
 
ElCid said:
Cain speaks truth, which is all but outlawed in America today.
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Well that statement doesn't really work since he said it, and he's allowed to say it and its likely he'll continue to say it and nothing will happen to him :coffeepap

He has the guts to speak the truth into America's great 'lie-making machine': television. How dare he?
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Yeah! How dare he claim to be a consititutionalist and blatantly go against the first ****ing amendment when it suits him!

Aren't we all supposed to believe in the exact same, unofficial creed of America today? Aren't we all supposed to be PC robots, as dictated by what we're told by the television?
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Ah more like, he said something, we're disagreeing with it, and through the democratic process the people will hopefully find his views to be unnacceptable and he will not be elected to office.

But you must feel really good, and heroic to be the forefront outspoken soldier on the front lines of the interwebs, bravely fighting the islamist, politically correct scurge!

Your persecution complex appears to be deeply intrenched.

"They don't wanna persecute muslims! I'm LOSING MY RIGHTS!".
 
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Top form Jet, top form.
 
justabubba said:
was wondering where you were headed with this
you want to present that those of the islamic faith are not actually practicing their religion but are instead found to be cult members
and the first amendment does not provide for freedom of cults

but what is to prevent this strategy, this re-classification of a particular brand of religion, to be instead deemed a cult from also being used to insist that mormons, or mennonites, or quakers are not protected by the first amendment because they would be found cults and not religions
Click to expand...
The same argument would apply when our government back in Feb 1993 began a siege with intense gun battle on its own citizens at the “religious” compound of david koresh’s branch davidian that lasted 50 days, resulting in the death of 20 children with a total of 75 deaths. During those 50 days, were you out there screaming against the govt to prevent this strategy of re-classification?

Yet, there was nothing in koresh’s sacred book that called for beheading and killing of non-believers and renegades. But there are plenty of open ended violent commands in the quran and the ahadith that commanded muslims to behead and kill infidels (non-believers) and Jews wherever they find them. Not only that there wasn't any branch davidians members going about killing innocent civilians or flew suicide planes into high rise buildings in the name of their god as did the fanatic muslims all over the world and many times over.

The same argument could also be made of the persecutions by the US govt against jim jones’ peoples’ temple that drove him and his flock to seek asylum in Guyana. Yet, there was nothing written in jim jones’ sacred books that called for slaughter of non-believers, none whatsoever as compared to the numerous calls for violence against infidels in the quran and ahadith. Not only that, prior to the investigative visit by a US congressman and his team to Guyana there wasn't any jim jones' followers going about killing innocent civilians or flew suicide planes into high rise buildings in the name of their god as did the fanatic muslims.

If congress would have the guts to call for a hearing regarding the religious status of islam based on what were written in the quran, the ahadith and other Islamic scriptures that calls for violence against innocent people, and compare the behavior of muslims that turned devout and violent, they will find that the behavior of muslims or even converts that turned violent is consistent to the teaching of the quran, the ahadith and other Islamic scriptures, even to the letter. Recent case in point is the Little Rock murder case of American muslim convert adulhakim muhammad. Yet, there are countless muslim converts that turned violent when they were religiously delusioned into the evil of islam.

If Congress would find that islam is not a religion but a violent cult, then the First Amendment issue won't be an issue the same way the cults of david koresh, jim jones, charles manson, marshall "Do" applewhite (heaven's gate cult), etc wouldn't be a religious or First Amendment issue.

I can only do my best to warn you to save America and the Western civilization. You can either investigate and do your own research diligently or close your eyes to stand with the “religion” of evil. If things go in your way, there would be bloodshed and perpetual unrests for our children. With that, it makes me appreciate and understand more clearly why the ancient Israelites suffered the violent consequences at their enemies’ hands when they refused to heeds the warnings given by God.
 
i want plenty of questions answered before we allow baptist churches to be built. see how that works? your candidate is a bigot. why am i not surprised that you support him?
 
dolphinocean said:
The same argument would apply when our government back in Feb 1993 began a siege with intense gun battle on its own citizens at the “religious” compound of david koresh’s branch davidian that lasted 50 days, resulting in the death of 20 children with a total of 75 deaths. During those 50 days, were you out there screaming against the govt to prevent this strategy of re-classification?

Yet, there was nothing in koresh’s sacred book that called for beheading and killing of non-believers and renegades. But there are plenty of open ended violent commands in the quran and the ahadith that commanded muslims to behead and kill infidels (non-believers) and Jews wherever they find them. Not only that there wasn't any branch davidians members going about killing innocent civilians or flew suicide planes into high rise buildings in the name of their god as did the fanatic muslims all over the world and many times over.

The same argument could also be made of the persecutions by the US govt against jim jones’ peoples’ temple that drove him and his flock to seek asylum in Guyana. Yet, there was nothing written in jim jones’ sacred books that called for slaughter of non-believers, none whatsoever as compared to the numerous calls for violence against infidels in the quran and ahadith. Not only that, prior to the investigative visit by a US congressman and his team to Guyana there wasn't any jim jones' followers going about killing innocent civilians or flew suicide planes into high rise buildings in the name of their god as did the fanatic muslims.

If congress would have the guts to call for a hearing regarding the religious status of islam based on what were written in the quran, the ahadith and other Islamic scriptures that calls for violence against innocent people, and compare the behavior of muslims that turned devout and violent, they will find that the behavior of muslims or even converts that turned violent is consistent to the teaching of the quran, the ahadith and other Islamic scriptures, even to the letter. Recent case in point is the Little Rock murder case of American muslim convert adulhakim muhammad. Yet, there are countless muslim converts that turned violent when they were religiously delusioned into the evil of islam.

If Congress would find that islam is not a religion but a violent cult, then the First Amendment issue won't be an issue the same way the cults of david koresh, jim jones, charles manson, marshall "Do" applewhite (heaven's gate cult), etc wouldn't be a religious or First Amendment issue.

I can only do my best to warn you to save America and the Western civilization. You can either investigate and do your own research diligently or close your eyes to stand with the “religion” of evil. If things go in your way, there would be bloodshed and perpetual unrests for our children. With that, it makes me appreciate and understand more clearly why the ancient Israelites suffered the violent consequences at their enemies’ hands when they refused to heeds the warnings given by God.
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No really, by all means, continue to look for loopholes in fundamental rights so that you can justify your persecution of others.
 
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