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Thread: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Your strawmans are Hilarious, what does any of this mean to American Muslims that live in open
    Society?
    It has nothing to do with it. He is just your typical far-right Islamaphobe who has no tolerance for any belief system aside from his own.

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    What is your guarantee for the future given the violent outcomes turning up in Europe? And that was just the beginning

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Your strawmans are Hilarious, what does any of this mean to American Muslims that live in open
    Society?
    The people of jim jones, david koresh and charles manson would also live in open society if we would allow them like we allow people of islam. It's just a matter of the fact that over the centuries islam got a pass and has managed to be a "religion" by culture and number.

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    Let's review your three "cults." The People's Temple was not persecuted in reality only in Jone's mind. The people who wanted to stay in the compound were allowed to stay and no force would have been used against them. They left the U.S. because a lot of newspapers started investigating the allegations against Jones, but that isn't close to what you want done with Islam. David Koresh
    I'll give you, we shouldn't have got involved in that. However the Branch Davidans are around today though in smaller numbers. Manson? Really you consider prosecuting for horrible murders to be persecuting?

    Oh, that doesn't hold up either as none of the members of the Family not linked to the murders were persecuted and for months continued their devotion to Manson. Oh, and we tolerate cult groups all the time, not that Islam fits the sociological definition of a cult that you are trying to apply to it.

    For example we let the Moonies operate in the U.S., we let Scientology operate, etc. Your opposition to the rights of Muslims is nothing, but a blatant disregard of the 1st Amendment. It also shows your ignorance of how we handle various "cults" if you think the above listed were persecuted.
    Likewise for the muslims. They were not persecuted in reality only in their islamic mind. They believed the West is great satan out there to get them like they believed their prophet was persecuted by the meccans. Did we treat jim jones' "religion" as a legit religion with 1st amendment right? Of course not, otherwise he and his members won't have to live the comfort of their homes and families to go into the foreign jungles for survival. They would have hire a lawyer, even free from some lib law organiztion such as ACLU to defence vigorously their right.

    none of the members of the islamic faith not linked to the murders were persecuted also and for their lifetime continued their devotion to the violent ideology of islam, yet islam is treated as a "religion" protected by the first amendment, but manson's helter skelter wasn't.

    We may tolerate cults, but not one that advocated violence. That's the difference. Where in Scientology did they call for violence against unbelievers? When was the last time you heard some scientolgists flew a plane full of innocent civilians into the tall buildings full of innocent people? Can't you even differentiate the difference?

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Likewise for the muslims. They were not persecuted in reality only in their islamic mind. They believed the West is great satan out there to get them like they believed their prophet was persecuted by the meccans. Did we treat jim jones' "religion" as a legit religion with 1st amendment right? Of course not, otherwise he and his members won't have to live the comfort of their homes and families to go into the foreign jungles for survival. They would have hire a lawyer, even free from some lib law organiztion such as ACLU to defence vigorously their right.

    none of the members of the islamic faith not linked to the murders were persecuted also and for their lifetime continued their devotion to the violent ideology of islam, yet islam is treated as a "religion" protected by the first amendment, but manson's helter skelter wasn't.

    We may tolerate cults, but not one that advocated violence. That's the difference. Where in Scientology did they call for violence against unbelievers? When was the last time you heard some scientolgists flew a plane full of innocent civilians into the tall buildings full of innocent people? Can't you even differentiate the difference?
    Whats all this "they" about hmmm?

    SO you're saying every single last muslim believes the west is the great satan... all of them?

    Even these ones...?



    Or are they just doing this to fool us?

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    Likewise for the muslims. They were not persecuted in reality only in their islamic mind. They believed the West is great satan out there to get them like they believed their prophet was persecuted by the meccans. Did we treat jim jones' "religion" as a legit religion with 1st amendment right? Of course not, otherwise he and his members won't have to live the comfort of their homes and families to go into the foreign jungles for survival. They would have hire a lawyer, even free from some lib law organiztion such as ACLU to defence vigorously their right.

    none of the members of the islamic faith not linked to the murders were persecuted also and for their lifetime continued their devotion to the violent ideology of islam, yet islam is treated as a "religion" protected by the first amendment, but manson's helter skelter wasn't.

    We may tolerate cults, but not one that advocated violence. That's the difference. Where in Scientology did they call for violence against unbelievers? When was the last time you heard some scientolgists flew a plane full of innocent civilians into the tall buildings full of innocent people? Can't you even differentiate the difference?
    Wrong again. The Manson Family followers were allowed to continue their devotion to Manson, hell I could start a Church of Manson today and no one would stop me. Oh and the Church of Scientology has very shady past. For starters google "operation snow white" to see some of their criminal activity. However, it is clear to me that you are nothing but an intolerant bigot who refuses to accept anyone's beliefs but his own so I don't know why I talk to you. On the topic of Islam and the West. It is far too complex to boil down to a religious war. We have prompted up dictators over there for decades, we have have exploited their resources, these issues are the root of terrorism not religion. Religion is just a useful tool.
    Last edited by U.S. Socialist.; 07-26-11 at 02:21 PM.

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Whats all this "they" about hmmm?

    SO you're saying every single last muslim believes the west is the great satan... all of them?

    Even these ones...?



    Or are they just doing this to fool us?
    That's exactly what he thinks. I've argued his type before. They hate Islam, they hate anything that is different really. Islam is just the newest thing to be hated. I don't even like Islam or Christianity, but the different between me and people like dolphinocean, El Cid, Cain, etc is this: I may not believe it or consider it's beliefs anything other than superstition, but it has a right to exist just as Christianity does and I know the vast majority of Muslims are good people, I've known a few and I have nothing against them.

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    Whats all this "they" about hmmm?

    SO you're saying every single last muslim believes the west is the great satan... all of them?

    Even these ones...?



    Or are they just doing this to fool us?
    No, I am not against the humanity of muslims themselves. In fact, I am feeling sorry for their situation, a wicked situation which they had no control but was born into and brainwashed eversince they were babies. Most muslims weren't religious. They call themselves muslims because that's what islam is all about. You can't be anything else, not even converting into another relgion by your own choice, because islam forbid that with pain of death. And that's the hallmark of a violent cult (such as jim jones' cult which forbid its members from leaving the group in Guyana under threat of bodily harm).

    I see highly educated muslims such as those muslim physicians who firebombed the airport at Glasglow and many others like them including a muslim woman scientist who was charged with terrorism and felt that their lives would be very much different if islam wasn't in this world to influence their path. These young men and women are wasted all because of islam.

    I would want them and the world to know the truth about islam and put it where it truly belongs. In islamic countries not only non-muslims but muslims themselves were prohibited to ask question regarding their prophet or islam. Some who did were brutally punished. Do you stand for this kind of treatment on their own people?

    Not every single member of jim jones' or david koresh or aum shrinrikyo's cults believes the US or the world is out to get them either. Not all the cult members of jim jones, david koresh, aum shrinrikyo and others were violent or committed violent either. Nevertheless, do you and our society consider them religions or cults?
    Last edited by dolphinocean; 07-26-11 at 02:38 PM.

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by dolphinocean View Post
    No, I am not against the humanity of muslims themselves. In fact, I am feeling sorry for their situation, a wicked situation which they had no control but was born into and brainwashed eversince they were babies. Most muslims weren't religious. They call themselves muslims because that's what islam is all about. You can't be anything else, not even converting into another relgion by your own choice, because islam forbid that with pain of death. And that's the hallmark of a violent cult (such as jim jones' cult which forbid its members from leaving the group in Guyana under threat of bodily harm).

    I see highly educated muslims such as those muslim physicians who firebombed the airport at Glasglow and many others like them including a muslim woman scientist who was charged with terrorism and felt that their lives would be very much different if islam wasn't in this world to influence their path. These young men and women are wasted all because of islam.

    I would want them and the world to know the truth about islam and put it where it truly belongs. In islamic countries not only non-muslims but muslims themselves were prohibited to ask question regarding their prophet or islam. Some who did were brutally punished. Do you stand for this kind of treatment on their own people?

    Not every single member of jim jones' or david koresh or aum shrinrikyo's cults believes the US or the world is out to get them either. Not all the cult members of jim jones, david koresh, aum shrinrikyo and others were violent or committed violent either. Nevertheless, do you and our society consider them religions or cults?
    That was one of the most long winded dodges I've ever seen.

    Anyway, have fun man, you're nothing more then a anti-islamic zealot who cannot listen to reason and fact, you have your viewpoint and its not going anywhere, you can't be reasoned or negotiated with.

    All I can hope is that your view point remains firmly in the very, very small minority.

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    Re: Cain: Tenn. Mosque Infringes on Religious Freedom

    Quote Originally Posted by U.S. Socialist. View Post
    That's exactly what he thinks. I've argued his type before. They hate Islam, they hate anything that is different really. Islam is just the newest thing to be hated. I don't even like Islam or Christianity, but the different between me and people like dolphinocean, El Cid, Cain, etc is this: I may not believe it or consider it's beliefs anything other than superstition, but it has a right to exist just as Christianity does and I know the vast majority of Muslims are good people, I've known a few and I have nothing against them.
    You're making an argument without basis, as if there weren't any violent behaviors of muslims that conform to islam and consistent with its teaching. You make it looks like islam is truly teaching peace and I am just picking them without any justication whatsoever. You know that's not true yet you would lie and make a false case for islam.

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