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Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

Jeezy said:
None of those things would come to pass post 8/2.

Biggest hit would probably be SS/Medicaid/Medicare.
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Ok. So you're ok with old people starving to death or others dying of treatable conditions. Tell me how that's better.

In addition, it wouldn't be enough. There would need to be hits elsewhere as well. Police forces, schools, and security would probably all take a hit. Some districts have already dropped to a 4-day school week because they can't afford 5 days a week. How many of them would close down all together? There already places cutting or closing down their police forces.
 
StillBallin75 said:
cure can be found in other ways. If the American people, at large, are serious about the problem, then I believe it'll be solved.
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I've seen nobody address the cure so I'm all for forcing the cure.
 
Jeezy said:
Regardless of priorities, the FBI will not be "discontinued."
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Agreed that Mistress was being a bit dramatic.

Personally, I'd emphasize the fact that a sudden 44% decrease in government spending would be a serious negative shock to the economy.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Agreed that Mistress was being a bit dramatic.

Personally, I'd emphasize the fact that a sudden 44% decrease in government spending would be a serious negative shock to the economy.
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It really isn't. The agency responsible for stopping loose nuke trafficing is already facing a huge cut, or possible closure.
 
MistressNomad said:
So you're saying you're ok with us being unable to educate our children indefinitely? You're ok with the FBI being discontinued and terrorism being allowed to flow into our borders? You're ok with plunging us and the world into a depression unlike anyone living has ever known?
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My kids education is funded locally. Any federal involvement is only overhead. As far as the rest, they've had going on three years to address this but haven't. Blame them.

This is not a "hit" in the sense of tightening your belt and buying the cheap pasta. This would be a complete meltdown of our entire country. There are better ways to do this. You're basically proposing that someone commit suicide as a solution to credit card debt. That is beyond insane.
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This is the same BS we were sold TARP on. No more.
 
StillBallin75 said:
Really depends on how things are prioritized. The only things I think are untouchable would be interest payments on the debt, and perhaps military paychecks. Everything else would likely be on the table.

Not to mention about $500 billion worth of bonds mature in the month of August. The Treasury might have a hell of a time trying to roll that over. At the very least they'll have to raise interest rates to attract buyers.
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Raising interest rates would be a good thing.
 
Now, however, the Republicans are pushing things too far. Talks with the administration ground to a halt last month, despite an offer from the Democrats to cut at least $2 trillion and possibly much more out of the budget over the next ten years. Assuming that the recovery continues, that would be enough to get the deficit back to a prudent level. As The Economist went to press, Mr Obama seemed set to restart the talks.

The sticking-point is not on the spending side. It is because the vast majority of Republicans, driven on by the wilder-eyed members of their party and the cacophony of conservative media, are clinging to the position that not a single cent of deficit reduction must come from a higher tax take. This is economically illiterate and disgracefully cynical.

A gamble where you bet your country’s good name
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America's debt: Shame on them | The Economist
 
StillBallin75 said:
It ain't worth it, man. :shrug:

It's always easier to say no until you have to own up to the consequences.
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We were told that TARP, the bail outs, the huge give aways would solve all of this. That without all this massive spending we were looking at real problems. We spent the money and here we are looking at real problems.

Sorry, time to cut them off.
 
1Perry said:
We were told that TARP, the bail outs, the huge give aways would solve all of this. That without all this massive spending we were looking at real problems. We spent the money and here we are looking at real problems.

Sorry, time to cut them off.
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Better talk to Bush and the republicans about that.. Tarp was a Bush deal!!
 
I don't even know how to respond to that sort of callous rhetoric and blatant disregard for the well-being of not only the country itself, but the people in it, and oneself.
 
MistressNomad said:
Ok. So you're ok with old people starving to death or others dying of treatable conditions. Tell me how that's better.

In addition, it wouldn't be enough. There would need to be hits elsewhere as well. Police forces, schools, and security would probably all take a hit. Some districts have already dropped to a 4-day school week because they can't afford 5 days a week. How many of them would close down all together? There already places cutting or closing down their police forces.
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They won't "starve to death" either. Such ridiculous dramatization. No one cried wolf when the administration drained the debt incurred for payment of federal pensions, but they're up in arms over this? Feh. The vast majority of day-to-day law enforcement isn't even funded by the federal government, with the exception of nationwide programs like "Click it or ticket." Same goes for schools -- No Child Left Behind is the exception not the rule. 1Perry has already touched on that. You think the Department of Education is what disburses school money? You'd be right if you were speaking about lunch assistance programs, but aside from that, schools are staying open.

I'm aware of the need for across-the-board cuts, but the idea of the lights turning off in the Pentagon are utterly ridiculous. You'd think this were Y2K.

The more Obama says "This might bring down the Presidency" the more Republicans will want to do it. As things stand, I doubt it will....at least not by itself.
 
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1Perry said:
We were told that TARP, the bail outs, the huge give aways would solve all of this. That without all this massive spending we were looking at real problems. We spent the money and here we are looking at real problems.

Sorry, time to cut them off.
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1Perry, you really need to realize that absolutism/extremism is not the answer.

We can mince words all we want, but at the end of the day, there is really no point for you to even come on DP if all you're doing is telling everyone they're wrong. The point of a debate, in this context, is to come to some sort of a compromise, and you completely undermine that fundamental. You're a lot like Cantor, in this respect, and you don't realize that what you're saying, if implemented, would devastate the lives of millions of Americans, and through extension, hundreds of millions of people.
 
Jeezy said:
They won't "starve to death" either. Such ridiculous dramatization. No one cried wolf when the administration drained the debt incurred for payment of federal pensions, but they're up in arms over this? Feh. The vast majority of day-to-day law enforcement isn't even funded by the federal government, with the exception of nationwide programs like "Click it or ticket." Same goes for schools -- No Child Left Behind is the exception not the rule. You think the Department of Education is what disburses school money? You'd be right if you were speaking about lunch assistance programs, but aside from that, schools are staying open.

I'm aware of the need for across-the-board cuts, but the idea of the lights turning off in the Pentagon are utterly ridiculous. You'd think this were Y2K.
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I'm also taking into account the result of our credit rating going into the toilet and a renewed and worsened recession/depression. It's not like this sort of depression hasn't happened. Things can get that bad, and they have before - just not in anyone's personal memory. Maybe that's why we're stupid enough to tempt it.

P.S. Considering we already have tens of thousands of people dying yearly from inability to access medical care as it is, this is hardly much of a stretch.
 
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Obama, top foe clash as US debt talks flare up - Yahoo! News

The thing that strikes me is this line from Obama, "I've reached my limit. This may bring my presidency down, but I will not yield on this." That he is willing to not be re-elected for what he thinks is best for the American people really makes me proud to call him our President.

I don't know why people are shallow enough to compare Obama to Carter. Obama surged troops into Afghanistan, authorized the attack that killed Bin Laden, is currently giving Pakistan a b**ch slap, and is willing to not be re-elected over the deficit limit.

Say what you want about Obama, you can't deny, he has some steel ones down there.
 
repeter said:
Obama, top foe clash as US debt talks flare up - Yahoo! News

The thing that strikes me is this line from Obama, "I've reached my limit. This may bring my presidency down, but I will not yield on this." That he is willing to not be re-elected for what he thinks is best for the American people really makes me proud to call him our President.

I don't know why people are shallow enough to compare Obama to Carter. Obama surged troops into Afghanistan, authorized the attack that killed Bin Laden, is currently giving Pakistan a b**ch slap, and is willing to not be re-elected over the deficit limit.

Say what you want about Obama, you can't deny, he has some steel ones down there.
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They've largely been MIA these last two years.

Also love sensationalist headlines; Eric Cantor is a "foe" lolol
 
DemonMyst said:
Better talk to Bush and the republicans about that.. Tarp was a Bush deal!!
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Indeed, and I was completely against it. Obama did support, push and vote for it. I was never going to vote for McCain but his actions to save it sealed it.
 
MistressNomad said:
I'm also taking into account the result of our credit rating going into the toilet and a renewed and worsened recession/depression. It's not like this sort of depression hasn't happened. Things can get that bad, and they have before - just not in anyone's personal memory. Maybe that's why we're stupid enough to tempt it.

P.S. Considering we already have tens of thousands of people dying yearly from inability to access medical care as it is, this is hardly much of a stretch.
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Huh? That has nothing to do with what we were just talking about -- namely that the things you described weren't actually funded by the federal government. But sure. Let's talk about this instead.

The lowering of our credit rating isn't going to send us into a depression. First of all, not raising the debt ceiling means we aren't going to be issuing new debt so the reduced debt rating won't be there for any new commercial paper.

Second of all, the only thing that would happen in the event of our credit rating being downgraded is a jump in bond yields -- i.e. an increase in the cost of borrowing. Not ideal, considering that driving down bond yields was the whole point of QE1 and QE2, but not necessarily the end of the world. The market would definitely react, but that doesn't mean police departments would shut down. In the long run, I expect this to be good for T-bills, seeing as how it would be the first move the government has ever made to show it's actually committed to paying its obligations.

By the way, in the event of technical default, Moody's said it would lower the rating to Aa, which is still investment grade...

Your "P.S" is just you reverting to a familiar talking point, seeing as how you don't know much about bonds or the economy...or so I gather. :shrug: The fact that our healthcare system is organized in such a way as to make the consumer shoulder a larger portion of the cost as opposed to the government doesn't have anything to do with the FBI disappearing after August 2nd. People get a certain degree of treatment in this country -- even the uninsured. For many people with particular conditions, things become cost-prohibitive after a certain point. Is that an important problem? Yes. But that is also a social engineering choice which has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Literally nothing. There are no throngs outside of the hospitals dying in the streets. Anyway, aside from that, I'm going to be polite and let it slide.
 
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StillBallin75 said:
Would result in MORE debt...
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Not if we stop spending. Also this is only my belief but I fully believe it. Much of the problems are psychological. Most would agree with that. They see the continued attack on the dollar and do not feel good about things.

Now I know one does not automatically change the other but with higher rates the dollar would do better. People would feel better about the country without the constant attack on the dollar. Energy prices would come down and people would start spending in a more normal way.

Attacking the dollar is no way to make the country feel like things are getting better. We were told that this would increase exports. I read where the trade deficit hit record levels last month.
 
1Perry said:
Not if we stop spending. Also this is only my belief but I fully believe it. Much of the problems are psychological. Most would agree with that. They see the continued attack on the dollar and do not feel good about things.

Now I know one does not automatically change the other but with higher rates the dollar would do better. People would feel better about the country without the constant attack on the dollar. Energy prices would come down and people would start spending in a more normal way.

Attacking the dollar is no way to make the country feel like things are getting better. We were told that this would increase exports. I read where the trade deficit hit record levels last month.
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Edit: Scratch that, I was wrong.

The interest rates in the private financial markets are a related, but separate issue.
 
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repeter said:
1Perry, you really need to realize that absolutism/extremism is not the answer.
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No, it's not the only answer but those who could come up with another answer refuse to do so.

We can mince words all we want, but at the end of the day, there is really no point for you to even come on DP if all you're doing is telling everyone they're wrong. The point of a debate, in this context, is to come to some sort of a compromise, and you completely undermine that fundamental. You're a lot like Cantor, in this respect, and you don't realize that what you're saying, if implemented, would devastate the lives of millions of Americans, and through extension, hundreds of millions of people.
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I'm stating my position. That's why anyone posts here. But to say the school systems will collapse and people are going to starve to death is nothing but scare tactics.
 
StillBallin75 said:
If this poll is any indication, many Americans aren't aware of the consequences.
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I really hope Democrats and that pompous ass staining the Whitehouse keep this up........

"Your too Dumb America, to understand whats good for you"......we Democrat Kings and Liberal Lords need to keep spending your granchildren's grandhildren's money. You dont understand the consequences of not bankrupting this country.........

Coming on the heels of "We have to pass it, so you stupid American citizens can see whats in it"..........and crowd favorite "Why bother reading the bill, were cramming down your throats anyways"........

....2012 could make the 2010 conservative landslide look like an anthill.....
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