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Thread: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

  1. #41
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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    They won't "starve to death" either. Such ridiculous dramatization. No one cried wolf when the administration drained the debt incurred for payment of federal pensions, but they're up in arms over this? Feh. The vast majority of day-to-day law enforcement isn't even funded by the federal government, with the exception of nationwide programs like "Click it or ticket." Same goes for schools -- No Child Left Behind is the exception not the rule. You think the Department of Education is what disburses school money? You'd be right if you were speaking about lunch assistance programs, but aside from that, schools are staying open.

    I'm aware of the need for across-the-board cuts, but the idea of the lights turning off in the Pentagon are utterly ridiculous. You'd think this were Y2K.
    I'm also taking into account the result of our credit rating going into the toilet and a renewed and worsened recession/depression. It's not like this sort of depression hasn't happened. Things can get that bad, and they have before - just not in anyone's personal memory. Maybe that's why we're stupid enough to tempt it.

    P.S. Considering we already have tens of thousands of people dying yearly from inability to access medical care as it is, this is hardly much of a stretch.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 07-13-11 at 11:48 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Obama, top foe clash as US debt talks flare up - Yahoo! News

    The thing that strikes me is this line from Obama, "I've reached my limit. This may bring my presidency down, but I will not yield on this." That he is willing to not be re-elected for what he thinks is best for the American people really makes me proud to call him our President.

    I don't know why people are shallow enough to compare Obama to Carter. Obama surged troops into Afghanistan, authorized the attack that killed Bin Laden, is currently giving Pakistan a b**ch slap, and is willing to not be re-elected over the deficit limit.

    Say what you want about Obama, you can't deny, he has some steel ones down there.
    Veni. Vidi. Vici.
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  3. #43
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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Obama, top foe clash as US debt talks flare up - Yahoo! News

    The thing that strikes me is this line from Obama, "I've reached my limit. This may bring my presidency down, but I will not yield on this." That he is willing to not be re-elected for what he thinks is best for the American people really makes me proud to call him our President.

    I don't know why people are shallow enough to compare Obama to Carter. Obama surged troops into Afghanistan, authorized the attack that killed Bin Laden, is currently giving Pakistan a b**ch slap, and is willing to not be re-elected over the deficit limit.

    Say what you want about Obama, you can't deny, he has some steel ones down there.
    They've largely been MIA these last two years.

    Also love sensationalist headlines; Eric Cantor is a "foe" lolol
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #44
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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    Better talk to Bush and the republicans about that.. Tarp was a Bush deal!!
    Indeed, and I was completely against it. Obama did support, push and vote for it. I was never going to vote for McCain but his actions to save it sealed it.

  5. #45
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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I'm also taking into account the result of our credit rating going into the toilet and a renewed and worsened recession/depression. It's not like this sort of depression hasn't happened. Things can get that bad, and they have before - just not in anyone's personal memory. Maybe that's why we're stupid enough to tempt it.

    P.S. Considering we already have tens of thousands of people dying yearly from inability to access medical care as it is, this is hardly much of a stretch.
    Huh? That has nothing to do with what we were just talking about -- namely that the things you described weren't actually funded by the federal government. But sure. Let's talk about this instead.

    The lowering of our credit rating isn't going to send us into a depression. First of all, not raising the debt ceiling means we aren't going to be issuing new debt so the reduced debt rating won't be there for any new commercial paper.

    Second of all, the only thing that would happen in the event of our credit rating being downgraded is a jump in bond yields -- i.e. an increase in the cost of borrowing. Not ideal, considering that driving down bond yields was the whole point of QE1 and QE2, but not necessarily the end of the world. The market would definitely react, but that doesn't mean police departments would shut down. In the long run, I expect this to be good for T-bills, seeing as how it would be the first move the government has ever made to show it's actually committed to paying its obligations.

    By the way, in the event of technical default, Moody's said it would lower the rating to Aa, which is still investment grade...

    Your "P.S" is just you reverting to a familiar talking point, seeing as how you don't know much about bonds or the economy...or so I gather. The fact that our healthcare system is organized in such a way as to make the consumer shoulder a larger portion of the cost as opposed to the government doesn't have anything to do with the FBI disappearing after August 2nd. People get a certain degree of treatment in this country -- even the uninsured. For many people with particular conditions, things become cost-prohibitive after a certain point. Is that an important problem? Yes. But that is also a social engineering choice which has nothing to do with what we are discussing. Literally nothing. There are no throngs outside of the hospitals dying in the streets. Anyway, aside from that, I'm going to be polite and let it slide.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 07-14-11 at 12:15 AM.
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  6. #46
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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Would result in MORE debt...
    Not if we stop spending. Also this is only my belief but I fully believe it. Much of the problems are psychological. Most would agree with that. They see the continued attack on the dollar and do not feel good about things.

    Now I know one does not automatically change the other but with higher rates the dollar would do better. People would feel better about the country without the constant attack on the dollar. Energy prices would come down and people would start spending in a more normal way.

    Attacking the dollar is no way to make the country feel like things are getting better. We were told that this would increase exports. I read where the trade deficit hit record levels last month.

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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Not if we stop spending. Also this is only my belief but I fully believe it. Much of the problems are psychological. Most would agree with that. They see the continued attack on the dollar and do not feel good about things.

    Now I know one does not automatically change the other but with higher rates the dollar would do better. People would feel better about the country without the constant attack on the dollar. Energy prices would come down and people would start spending in a more normal way.

    Attacking the dollar is no way to make the country feel like things are getting better. We were told that this would increase exports. I read where the trade deficit hit record levels last month.
    Edit: Scratch that, I was wrong.

    The interest rates in the private financial markets are a related, but separate issue.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-14-11 at 12:16 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    1Perry, you really need to realize that absolutism/extremism is not the answer.
    No, it's not the only answer but those who could come up with another answer refuse to do so.

    We can mince words all we want, but at the end of the day, there is really no point for you to even come on DP if all you're doing is telling everyone they're wrong. The point of a debate, in this context, is to come to some sort of a compromise, and you completely undermine that fundamental. You're a lot like Cantor, in this respect, and you don't realize that what you're saying, if implemented, would devastate the lives of millions of Americans, and through extension, hundreds of millions of people.
    I'm stating my position. That's why anyone posts here. But to say the school systems will collapse and people are going to starve to death is nothing but scare tactics.

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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No, man. We would be getting deeper into debt just treading water.
    We would be forced to deal with it, not put it off for later.

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    Re: Breaking: Obama Warns Cantor 'Don't Call My Bluff' As Debt Talks Stall

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    If this poll is any indication, many Americans aren't aware of the consequences.
    I really hope Democrats and that pompous ass staining the Whitehouse keep this up........

    "Your too Dumb America, to understand whats good for you"......we Democrat Kings and Liberal Lords need to keep spending your granchildren's grandhildren's money. You dont understand the consequences of not bankrupting this country.........

    Coming on the heels of "We have to pass it, so you stupid American citizens can see whats in it"..........and crowd favorite "Why bother reading the bill, were cramming down your throats anyways"........

    ....2012 could make the 2010 conservative landslide look like an anthill.....
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