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Thread: Republicans are acting like vandals

  1. #51
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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    People that are actually entertaining raising taxes in this economy are seriously trying to make this Depression Great...............and our debt and deficit an even bigger problem.
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    Again, raising taxes on the few that are actually prospering in this economy will have very, very minimal effect on the recovery. People are not going to shut down or hinder a business that is making good profits because their taxes go from 35 to 40%. OTH, cutting expenditures means the government buys less, which is literally taking food off of the table of the guy that sells to the government...and food off the table of each of his employees and vendors. This is why tax increases to the wealthy is the best method to reduce deficit... if you want to reduce deficits, which Republicans really could care less about.

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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Ill tell you what, why dont you find out what real relation there is between revenue and GDP. As GDP growth declines, so does revenue---no matter how hard you tax people, because its a disincentive to effort. When the economy is down, raising taxes has a real possibility of making the recovery worse or even pushing the economy into a depression.

    The 2009 budget is somewhere in the 20s in percentages of GDP and revenues are rarely over 17% of GDP. That should tell everyone cuts have got to happen.

    For Randel and Upsideguy, be specific exactly which "loopholes" you want to cut. Im curious as to what you think is bad or greedy tax code. I bet you can find more wasetful spending than you can bad tax code, but if you want to find the most tax loopholes, I suggest you start with GE's tax form, their chummy relationship with Obama seems to coincide with a huge drop in their tax expense. (Btw thats a hint that a lot of tax cuts are in the green industry sector)
    Fair enough.... I would raise the marginal rate on earned income over $1M to 50%. Earned income is salary. High salaried individuals are not investors, but rather remove money from a business that could otherwise be used to expand that business.

    I have created 50 jobs in the past two years on a start-up I am doing. Salary and taxes are irrelevant to my pursuit. I am doing this because I see a market (demand) for my service. My financial incentive will be to build the business and sell it to someone that can take it to the next level. I am only interested in favorable capital gains treatment on my investment, not protecting my salary (which, right now, is non-existent)

    Under that current tax schema, we have created an incentive for high salaried workers. They are not the risk-takers... they are high priced managers that really add nothing. We had are greatest industrial growth when marginal rates on earned income were the highest... largely because we created an incentive to re-invest and a dis-incentive to pay out. Investors should be encouraged to look for the long-term capital gains (grow a business and sell it years down the road). Keep cap gains low, create jobs creation tax credits and tax the hell out of high salaries... Our economy currently is far too focused on today, this quarter or this year.... not enough focused on 5 to 10 years.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-09-11 at 12:08 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    One would think that after Obama spending more money than Gawd and all previous administrations combined........which only made the economy worse........not a sane soul would still believe in the fairytale that government spending somehow benefits an economy. You are proof there are exceptions.........



    Bring down the handful that are doing well........brilliant...........



    Only after they are first REMOVED from the economy...........Government doesnt have money........they only have what they steal.



    Which would be akin to saying tax increases only affect the economy as a hypothetical.........we could raise tax rates on everybody to 90% and it wouldnt hurt the economy one bit.......in your imagination.
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    Arguing the hyperbole is somewhere between disingenuous and childish. While I argued that tax increases on the ones benefiting most from this economy made sense , I never once suggested that we should tax them at 90%. Moreover, what I would propose would hardly "bring them down" but, instead would rely on the group that is doing well to do their civic duty in tough times. Whatever is done to fix the deficit will be painful. Asking those that most benefit to carry their fair share of pain seems not only natural, but right. ".... to whom much is given, of him much shall be required..." Luke 12:48

    As to Obama spending.... he only increase spending by 10% over his predecessor... and most of that was a stimulus bill designed to fix the stagnant economy left by his predecessor.

    A dollar of government spending goes DIRECTLY to a vendor or employee of the government, who in turn pay their bills and their vendors and their respective taxes on that income. A dollar of tax cuts goes.... well, why don't you explain. (hint: virtually every credible economist will tell you that government expenditures have a much more measureable economic impact than a tax cut)
    Last edited by upsideguy; 07-09-11 at 12:27 AM.

  4. #54
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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    Fair enough.... I would raise the marginal rate on earned income over $1M to 50%. Earned income is salary. High salaried individuals are not investors, but rather remove money from a business that could otherwise be used to expand that business.

    I have created 50 jobs in the past two years on a start-up I am doing. Salary and taxes are irrelevant to my pursuit. I am doing this because I see a market (demand) for my service. My financial incentive will be to build the business and sell it to someone that can take it to the next level. I am only interested in favorable capital gains treatment on my investment, not protecting my salary (which, right now, is non-existent)

    Under that current tax schema, we have created an incentive for high salaried workers. They are not the risk-takers... they are high priced managers that really add nothing. We had are greatest industrial growth when marginal rates on earned income were the highest... largely because we created an incentive to re-invest and a dis-incentive to pay out. Investors should be encouraged to look for the long-term capital gains (grow a business and sell it years down the road). Keep cap gains low, create jobs creation tax credits and tax the hell out of high salaries... Our economy currently is far too focused on today, this quarter or this year.... not enough focused on 5 to 10 years.
    Isn't the marginal rate going to about 45% already, with the Bush/Obama tax cuts expiring in 2012 and a 5% surcharge from the health care plan due in 2014. Also if you five in the state of Minn. didn't the state tax just rise to 10.95%. So if you are in a high tax state you are already on the hook for a 50% + rate.

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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    Democrats cant even bring themselves to cut a Cowboy Poetry Contest or NPR............its an empty table........
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    Yet they've basically agreed to $2 trillion in cuts over 10 years. Your inability to even read the news is disturbing.

    Furthermore, anyone who argues this can be done solely with spending cuts is absolutely delusional and does not understand basic math.
    Last edited by obvious Child; 07-09-11 at 07:36 AM.
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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    I never thought I would live to see the day when a simple statement like "there are two sides to a budget" would be subject to political attacks on the person expressing that basic reality of Bookkeeping 101 would be vilified, demonized and attacked for being a socialist, marxist, communist or generally anything but a good American.
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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    When are the wackos going to understand that if you raise taxes you stifle growth and increase uncertainty, both have helped get us in the mess, along with huge nasty dose of Obama's idiotic policies.

    The problem is more complicated than most Liberals who post here seem to be able to grasp.

    I have dealt with many difficult issues in my life having to do with fiscal problems and the general public almost never get it, this issue is no different.

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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Perhaps you have some solution to get that pesky and ignorant "general public" moved out of the way so that 'proper action' can be taken?
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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    When are the wackos going to understand that if you raise taxes you stifle growth and increase uncertainty
    Try again. Raising taxes may stifle growth, it depends what kind of tax and who it's on. Furthermore, raising taxes and making the actual proposals known reduces uncertainty. What increases uncertainty is lack of actual solid legislation.

    Furthermore When are the wackos going to understand that if you dramatically cut spending you stifle growth and increase uncertainty?

    both have helped get us in the mess, along with huge nasty dose of ObamaBush's idiotic policies.
    Fixed. If you were honest, you'd recognize that Obama is little more then Bush's Third Term. But you are not honest.

    The problem is more complicated than most Liberals who post here seem to be able to grasp.
    Indeed. The problem is far more complicated then partisan hacks who post here seem to be able to grasp. Fools like you think that cutting 70% of budget is a good idea and won't have any side effects...like massive depression.

    I have dealt with many difficult issues in my life having to do with fiscal problems and the general public almost never get it, this issue is no different.
    Then why are so many of your posts so fiscally ignorant that 5th graders demonstrate higher levels of expertise?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Republicans are acting like vandals

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    When are the wackos going to understand that if you raise taxes you stifle growth and increase uncertainty, both have helped get us in the mess, along with huge nasty dose of Obama's idiotic policies.

    The problem is more complicated than most Liberals who post here seem to be able to grasp.

    I have dealt with many difficult issues in my life having to do with fiscal problems and the general public almost never get it, this issue is no different.
    On the other hand, calling those of us who disagree with you 'wackos' serves no useful purpose now, does it.

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