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Thread: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

  1. #101
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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by zimmer View Post
    Here we have OC doing what he does so well... he puts words in other people's mouths and then argues from that point. And he'll argue you said it, and as witnessed above, he will call you stupid for a position he's assigned you. It's the only way the cretin seems to know how to debate... dishonestly.
    Okay. Go and prove this. Try. And analyzing the logic behind the argument is not putting words in other's mouths. Merely because you have a historical problem with people dissecting your argument and showing how the logic is not only asinine but completely uneducated is not my problem. Furthermore, your constant failure to actually show how taking the logic within the argument of your opponent to its logical end is not dishonest. It's calling debating. The reason you are so often on the losing side of the debate is because you never learned how to debate in the first place. That is not my problem either. When someone shows how stupid the logic you used is, you fly off the hand rather then self reflect as to whether or not that logic was faulty in the first place. That is not a sign of maturity, nor a sign you are willing to grow as a person. I take it you don't take criticism well? Your constant inability to actually prove your argument much less how the concluded logic you declare "dishonest" is actually dishonest suggests you never were taught proper debate skills.

    OC can't take the words at face value or ask what someone implied or their underlying meaning.
    Let's see. The cost per job directly states it ends at the saved job alone. That explicitly argues that multipliers were not applied in the calculation. You will not have response to this because you cannot refute the logic I use. Hence why you always fall back on "he's dishonest!" Absolutely nothing I stated is what you make it out to be. If it was, you could show that the logic within the argument you posted taken to its conclusion is not what I argued. But you cannot. Nor will you even try.

    Nope... he jumps right in a puts words in other people's mouths. It's a bad habit of his, that and his professional prevaricating while accusing others of it.

    OC, it's time to clean up your pathetic act.

    .
    Good luck proving this. Especially after how I just dissected your tactic.

    The simple fact that you call logic "putting words in other's mouths" is not a sign of skill on your part.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  2. #102
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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    What's retarded is your ridiculous assumption that the saved/created jobs were created out of thin air and not at the expense of others.
    Why? First of all, I made no assumption that the jobs were created out of nowhere. That is a fabrication on your part. Do that again and I will call you a liar and I will prove it. I merely pointed out that the assumptions within the cost model are faulty as they are extremely unrealistic as it requires earned money in those jobs not to be taxed or spent.

    You're taking money from Oscar Meyer to "Create or Save" a job, claiming that when the recipient buys hot dogs, he'll create more jobs. It makes no sense.
    Considering that the stimulus was debt financed, no money was "taken" at all. Unless you think that the government points guns at people and forces them to buy debt. But that would be rather stupid wouldn't? Learn how a debt offering works and then come and tell me that the government "took" money from corporations or people. Actually I'm not really sure what you are arguing in that quote. Increased demand at levels above capacity do increase jobs if employers expand production. Or at least keeping demand from falling assuming no changes in productivity result in no jobs being lost. So Oscar Meyer freely buying US debt in which is returned to them in government contracts should at least maintain their employment levels holding all other factors constant.

    "I'm going to take $1.00 from you so we can pay Steve to paint the fence that Al over there decided was the least important thing to spend money on. We're going to save that job. Not to worry, you'll get $.80 back from Steve when he buys your XXX and with that you can hire more people, we'll of course pocket $.20 for providing our services. Everybody wins."
    Where did you get this notion that debt offerings are involuntary actions upon debt purchasers? Furthermore, a company that stands to get a big contract actually has an incentive to buy short term to medium term debt. As the money will fuel a contract to them increasing revenues over baseline, they'll also get interest on the debt they freely purchase. Basically it's getting your money for basically free after taxes.

    Now how about you stop acting pretentious?
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  3. #103
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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    I hate to break this to you, but condescending liberals like you are a dime a dozen.
    I wasn't aware that Gringrich and Goldwater are/were liberals.

    I do find it amusing there's a hate club for me. I guess after destroying so many of you so often you guys band together in what little hope you have of actually getting a hit on me. Cute really.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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  5. #105
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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    OC, multipliers are the smallest part of the error. The value of the work is far and away the biggest thing making the calculations false.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Why? First of all, I made no assumption that the jobs were created out of nowhere. That is a fabrication on your part. Do that again and I will call you a liar and I will prove it. I merely pointed out that the assumptions within the cost model are faulty as they are extremely unrealistic as it requires earned money in those jobs not to be taxed or spent.
    And I was merely pointing out the flawed assumptions within your unrealistic model that requires money used to create or save jobs come out of thin air.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Considering that the stimulus was debt financed, no money was "taken" at all. Unless you think that the government points guns at people and forces them to buy debt.
    No, but they do point guns at people and force them to pay off that debt. I assume you're not advocating we default on those obligations. Of course, that's paid with interest. Maybe you want to tell me that will create jobs for bankers? Oscar Meyer pays taxes to cover interest and loan payments for all of these jobs, if not now, then sometime down the road, making those jobs cost more and more as compounded interest works its magic.

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    Where did you get this notion that debt offerings are involuntary actions upon debt purchasers?
    I hold no such belief. Where did you get the notion that debt is never repaid, that the employee wins, the government wins, the company wins, and the only loser is the thin air from which we get the money to make this all work?

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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    I wasn't aware that Gringrich and Goldwater are/were liberals.

    I do find it amusing there's a hate club for me. I guess after destroying so many of you so often you guys band together in what little hope you have of actually getting a hit on me. Cute really.
    Thanks !!

    Great job at proving my post correct.

    • "The America Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money." -- Alexis de Tocqueville





  8. #108
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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    OC, multipliers are the smallest part of the error. The value of the work is far and away the biggest thing making the calculations false.
    I'm not so sure about that. The total spending and stated jobs given look reasonable. It's just that the underlying assumptions as to why the calculation stopped there are truly asinine. And IMO, the lack of multipliers are a rather large error.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Taylor View Post
    And I was merely pointing out the flawed assumptions within your unrealistic model that requires money used to create or save jobs come out of thin air.
    So you are a liar. Got it. I actually stated the model in question is exceptionally unrealistic. My ENTIRE POSTS detailed why the model was unrealistic as its assumptions basically required those in the saved/created jobs to be robots. Can you read? And you were NOT merely pointing out that. Instead of actually reading what I wrote, you assumed what you wanted and then created obvious fabrications to attack me on. Too bad that I called you on your bull**** you liar.

    Less fail next time liar.

    No, but they do point guns at people and force them to pay off that debt.
    Not necessarily. Unless you can prove that a specific person's taxes went towards debt servicing, you don't have an argument, unlike say the DOE calling in the swat team on the unpaid education loans. That would actually being pointing guns at people to force them to pay off that debt.

    I assume you're not advocating we default on those obligations. Of course, that's paid with interest. Maybe you want to tell me that will create jobs for bankers? Oscar Meyer pays taxes to cover interest and loan payments for all of these jobs, if not now, then sometime down the road, making those jobs cost more and more as compounded interest works its magic.
    Are you really that foolish? I just pointed out how the OP's argument is idiotic because it does not account for multipliers. And you just argued that multipliers don't exist by saying that the costs to provide the initial capital for the initial jobs ends there and no additional jobs are created by indirect spending. Try again, with less fail.

    I hold no such belief.
    Because you stated that the government took money to pay for the stimulus. Which is wrong. The government will eventually have to pay off the debt related to the stimulus, but it did not take money to pay for the stimulus at the time of the capital infusion. Reread your own post before saying you never held such a belief.

    Where did you get the notion that debt is never repaid
    More lies? I never argued the debt is never repaid. In fact, I did mention something about how Oscar Meyer ends up better overall after taxes on the money it lent to the government that came back in demand.

    that the employee wins, the government wins, the company wins, and the only loser is the thin air from which we get the money to make this all work?
    Debt financing is not the same as quantitative easing. Learn the difference.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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    Re: Obama’s Economists: ‘Stimulus’ Has Cost $278,000 per Job

    Quote Originally Posted by Gill View Post
    Thanks !!

    Great job at proving my post correct.
    Someone has to keep that fragile ego of yours intact.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

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