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Thread: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

  1. #121
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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    Go back to what I said, read what it was in response to, then come back and admit you don't know what you're talking about.
    You said what you said. You didn't know what "default" meant? Fine, whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    You said what you said.
    Quote me saying I advocate a default, or not honoring the debt. YOU CANNOT BECAUSE I HAVEN'T! That's the beauty of online debates, what I say is a matter of record and YOU cannot put words in my mouth to save your ignorance from showing.

    My response to "it will take 30 years of tax increases and spending cuts to significantly address our debt" was "or a default."

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    You didn't know what "default" meant? Fine, whatever.
    What? I think its quite clear that you don't, and you have reading comprehension or straw-man addiction problems.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 07-07-11 at 03:46 AM.
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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Lachean View Post
    No, I am accurately using the terms "economic system" and "trickle down economics" which is a pejorative for low taxes.
    The trickle down economics as instituted by Ronald Reagan increased the debt more than all the previous presidents combined. Sorry, that is the reality.


    Deregulation and increased spending have nothing to do with "trickle down economics." Tax cuts don't need to be funded, spending does. And no amount of taxing could have covered our deficits.

    Deregulation helped bring about the Bush recession and the high gas price spikes that is hindering recovery of the Bush recession. Tax cuts reduce revenue which combined with increased spending created our out of hand debt. All of these have contributed to our debt, and we will only reduce our debt significantly when we address all these causes.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
    Sure, but then we wouldn't default. I just said that if we default it's bad news. We should really cut so that we don't have to do that, but do you think that amount of cuts is really going to happen with like one week left?
    Likely not as we have a bunch of imbecile's in D.C.

    Has it? I know it's moved from early August to late July, but that's not too much of a change and it's backwards too. Unless you're talking about cutting in order to avoid default which is what I would support.
    It was late spring initially. Then when it was obvious nothing was going to happen by then it was moved back a couple times with the reasoning being that they could move money around or something to extend things. Let's see if they do not come up with another deadline.

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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I remember reading that the Democrats proposed cutting $50 billion in subsidies to the oil companies that are making record profits, and the GOP voted it down. The Health care Reform saves half a trillion dollars.
    No it doesn't.

    The Democrats have also proposed ending our wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. That will save us billions monthly!
    Sheesh, Obama is expanding the wars. He was saying yesterday that we are going to stay in Iraq even longer. Look, I'm not one to blame all the debt on one guy. I'm not saying it's one guys fault. It's not. But the above type of things is why nothing gets done.

  6. #126
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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The trickle down economics as instituted by Ronald Reagan increased the debt more than all the previous presidents combined. Sorry, that is the reality.
    Revenue's greatly increased during that time. Unfortunately we spent even more than the increased revenue's.

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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    No it doesn't.
    Thanks for your insightful response.



    Sheesh, Obama is expanding the wars. He was saying yesterday that we are going to stay in Iraq even longer. Look, I'm not one to blame all the debt on one guy. I'm not saying it's one guys fault. It's not. But the above type of things is why nothing gets done.
    France to follow U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan

    Iraqi Prime Minister: U.S Troop Withdrawal in 2011 'Is Sealed'


    BTW, who is the credible presidential candidate proposing less military spending than Obama? If there is a more liberal credible candidate out there, I will vote for him or her.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Revenue's greatly increased during that time. Unfortunately we spent even more than the increased revenue's.

    The revenues increased because of the stimulus spending by Reagan, revenues would have increased even more if he had not cut them. Revenues did not increase from the Bush tax cuts but they did from Clinton's tax increase. When Clinton increased taxes, revenues increased immediately.

    That and decreased spending will be required if we ever get serious about reducing our debt.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Quote Originally Posted by CarlF View Post
    Has it? I know it's moved from early August to late July, but that's not too much of a change and it's backwards too. Unless you're talking about cutting in order to avoid default which is what I would support.
    Speaking about the moving deadline we get this today..

    (Reuters) - A small team of Treasury officials is discussing options to stave off default if Congress fails to raise the country's borrowing limit by an August 2 deadline, sources familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.


    Exclusive: Treasury secretly weighs options to avert default | Reuters

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    Re: Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

    Stable economies are based (At least on western theory) on the idea that generally speaking, people react rationally to financial decisions. It's exactly how Wall St. functions, and without that presumption, Wall St. could not exist. So, to the question of what will happen if we default, well, no one really knows exactly if we would default. We have enough to pay our debts, but that means cutting back tremendously on a lot of bloated entitlement spending, military spending, and heck every kind of spending. We can tax a little in the upper income brackets, and if kept rational, and fair, then we can avoid default. Simple as that, really. You don't need some ivy league economist to tell you this. The problem here is in predicting how the economy will react to either scenario, and here's why. In order for rational economic theory to work, all the players must act rationally, and ALL the players combined, must be greater than the sum total of all economic interests involved.

    Here's our problem.

    1. Entitlement recipients = irrational
    2. Government = irrational
    3. Wall St. = irrational
    4. Tax payers = mostly rational
    5. Banks/financial institutions = now acting rationally, but were not always, and in fact caused a lot of this mess in conjunction with a tacit federal government.

    There are more players I'm sure, but you get the picture. Entitlement recipients alone equal roughly 50% of the nation, and they're all going to act irrationally when it comes to the golden goose. Wall St. Acting irrational and they just happen to control a good amount of the flow of money.. And then we have government acting for always, irrational.

    The prognosis is not good, any way you slice it, so I warn people to be prepared as the catalyst for a real melt down could be something relatively small, and when it hits, no one will have predicted it happening in advance. That means no warning.. The only way to prevent this is to have most of the players realizing what i just wrote, and acting like grownups.. Fat chance.. Sooooo Take from it what you will.


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