Economists: Failure to raise debt limit could lead to recession

Catawba said:

The trickle down economics as instituted by Ronald Reagan increased the debt more than all the previous presidents combined. Sorry, that is the reality.

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Revenue's greatly increased during that time. Unfortunately we spent even more than the increased revenue's.

1Perry said:

No it doesn't.

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Thanks for your insightful response.

Sheesh, Obama is expanding the wars. He was saying yesterday that we are going to stay in Iraq even longer. Look, I'm not one to blame all the debt on one guy. I'm not saying it's one guys fault. It's not. But the above type of things is why nothing gets done.

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France to follow U.S. troop withdrawal from Afghanistan

Iraqi Prime Minister: U.S Troop Withdrawal in 2011 'Is Sealed'


BTW, who is the credible presidential candidate proposing less military spending than Obama? If there is a more liberal credible candidate out there, I will vote for him or her.

1Perry said:

Revenue's greatly increased during that time. Unfortunately we spent even more than the increased revenue's.

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The revenues increased because of the stimulus spending by Reagan, revenues would have increased even more if he had not cut them. Revenues did not increase from the Bush tax cuts but they did from Clinton's tax increase. When Clinton increased taxes, revenues increased immediately.

That and decreased spending will be required if we ever get serious about reducing our debt.

CarlF said:

Has it? I know it's moved from early August to late July, but that's not too much of a change and it's backwards too. Unless you're talking about cutting in order to avoid default which is what I would support.

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Speaking about the moving deadline we get this today..

(Reuters) - A small team of Treasury officials is discussing options to stave off default if Congress fails to raise the country's borrowing limit by an August 2 deadline, sources familiar with the matter said on Wednesday.


Exclusive: Treasury secretly weighs options to avert default | Reuters

Stable economies are based (At least on western theory) on the idea that generally speaking, people react rationally to financial decisions. It's exactly how Wall St. functions, and without that presumption, Wall St. could not exist. So, to the question of what will happen if we default, well, no one really knows exactly if we would default. We have enough to pay our debts, but that means cutting back tremendously on a lot of bloated entitlement spending, military spending, and heck every kind of spending. We can tax a little in the upper income brackets, and if kept rational, and fair, then we can avoid default. Simple as that, really. You don't need some ivy league economist to tell you this. The problem here is in predicting how the economy will react to either scenario, and here's why. In order for rational economic theory to work, all the players must act rationally, and ALL the players combined, must be greater than the sum total of all economic interests involved.

Here's our problem.

1. Entitlement recipients = irrational
2. Government = irrational
3. Wall St. = irrational
4. Tax payers = mostly rational
5. Banks/financial institutions = now acting rationally, but were not always, and in fact caused a lot of this mess in conjunction with a tacit federal government.

There are more players I'm sure, but you get the picture. Entitlement recipients alone equal roughly 50% of the nation, and they're all going to act irrationally when it comes to the golden goose. Wall St. Acting irrational and they just happen to control a good amount of the flow of money.. And then we have government acting for always, irrational.

The prognosis is not good, any way you slice it, so I warn people to be prepared as the catalyst for a real melt down could be something relatively small, and when it hits, no one will have predicted it happening in advance. That means no warning.. The only way to prevent this is to have most of the players realizing what i just wrote, and acting like grownups.. Fat chance.. Sooooo Take from it what you will.


Tim-

Catawba said:

I thought you said the spending originated from the House, not the president? Who's in control of the House?

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Obama--Pelosi--Reid gave us the Largest Budget in US History, The Largest Budget Deficit in US History, The Largest Spending Bill in US History, and The Largest National Debt in US History.

While yes we can blame it all on the San Franfreakshow Box of Hair.........but Reid and Obama gave their 100% support as well.
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Badmutha said:

]While yes we can blame it all on the San Franfreakshow Box of Hair.........but Reid and Obama gave their 100% support as well.

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Never fear, the Republicans are in control of the House, where you said all spending originates.

megaprogman said:

Its ok BDBoop, there is a logical fallacy for practically every argument. If you are concerned, he is using this one in his dismissal.

Fallacy: Circumstantial Ad Hominem

This one too Fallacy: Poisoning the Well

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I should take a course, seriously. Thank you.

Lachean said:

1st line of the article: "Economists organized by the liberal Economic Policy Institute and Center for American Progress have written a letter to Congress..."

The 1st word in your title should have been "Liberal Economists: Failure to raise..."

Talk about a misleading title about a biased letter with a dash of appeal to authority.

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You know what I miss? When we just had experts. Why does knowledge and expertise have to have partisan bias? The truth is not left leaning or right leaning. It's just the truth. Why must every expert suddenly be assumed to have some kind of political agenda, as opposed to genuinely caring about their field and wanting the best. Environmentalists genuinely want the environment to survive and remain beautiful and available for future generations. Economists want economic stability and prosperity. Scientists want to uncover the truth about the world. None of these desires are liberal or conservative. The truth is not partisan.

Catawba said:

Never fear, the Republicans are in control of the House, where you said all spending originates.

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Ok so were in agreement....spending originates in the house.......




.....who is responsible for most of the debt again? Thanks for playing.......
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Lachean said:

What does ANY of that have to do with trickle down economics? Do you even know what Trickle Down Economics means?

Monetary Policy, protectionism and overspending have NOTHING to do with tax rates.

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Yea, you don't know what you are talking about.

CarlF said:

By the way, what has the latest offer been that the democrats given the republicans? Last I heard I thought it was 1 trillion over ten years, I feel like I've somehow missed something because I read an editorial the other day claiming that democrats had offered trillions in cuts or something.

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2trillion was the last offer, Ryan's plan is about 2.4trillion. All three "plans" require raising the debt limit in the short term.

Badmutha said:

Because that is how Democrats and Statists operate.........no sane public would support giving The Most Expensive President in History another dime........

.......scaring the hell out of the public is how Democrats try and pass all their hair brain agenda.........
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I really wish you weren't so partisan. Obama told the truth when he said "the money has already been spent." Its not borrowing more money to pay for spending in the future, its borrowing more money to cover spending already done.

CarlF said:

What do you mean 'retraction of credit'? I thought it was caused due to people buying too much on credit and businesses over-producing in response which had to end somehow, the 1929 crash.

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The stock market crash of 1929 didn't cause the great depression, it was the polices after the fact that caused it. The newly created FED did not follow its rule of printing more money when they received more gold overseas to keep deflation from happening. As a result, the dollar suddenly and exponentially increased in value, which caused credit freezes because loaning you money today would be a net loss tomorrow. Not only that, but people also saw that spending money today would be a net loss because it would be worth more tomorrow. So while credit froze, so did spending, which made it impossible for business to cover the expenses of its day to day operations.

xpiher said:

Yea, you don't know what you are talking about.

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How am I wrong? Don't just state that I am ignorant, this is a debate forum; Show it.

GOP talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk:




Derek Thompson - Authors - The Atlantic

Looks to me like getting the country into debt isn't so much a left or right thing as it is an American thing.

Catawba said:

Never fear, the Republicans are in control of the House, where you said all spending originates.

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Which is why we are even having this discussion. If they had not won back the House, we would already be further into debt. The sad part is, if there was a GOP president we would likely see them argueing for raising the ceiling and Obama calling that immoral.

That is an easy one to call as we have already seen that happen.

Paschendale said:

Looks to me like getting the country into debt isn't so much a left or right thing as it is an American thing.

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Yes indeedy! We have a very representative government as far as I can tell. We get the government we deserve. :sun

Badmutha said:

Obama--Pelosi--Reid gave us the Largest Budget in US History, The Largest Budget Deficit in US History, The Largest Spending Bill in US History, and The Largest National Debt in US History.

While yes we can blame it all on the San Franfreakshow Box of Hair.........but Reid and Obama gave their 100% support as well.
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Yes, all of those things are true, except who is to blame.... this group has merely been paying the bar tab left by the previous government(s) of drunken fools. Given, however, that our deficits were the lowest in recent history at the start of the previous administration's drinking binge and the highest at its end, I think the lion's share of blame can be pretty safely laid upon that group.