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Millionaires shrug off the downturn

Paschendale said:
Of course the wealthiest are doing better because of the recession. They caused it for exactly that purpose!

And because the very next post will be "nuh uh! you have no proof!", don't forget that the housing crash came about from these rich banks and these rich corporate guys getting together to sell middle class people products that were designed to become worthless... and then set themselves up to benefit when they failed. That's called a "scam". And it had the desired effect of transferring a whole lot of money from most of the population to a tiny fraction of the population who already had most of the money.
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Another function it has is to make property cheaper and if you got the money.....
 
winston53660 said:
Another function it has is to make property cheaper and if you got the money.....
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Hate to break it to you, chief, but the real estate market is still highly volatile and trending slightly downward. IE we havent hit bottom yet.

Investors are not going into the market right now except for long term rental investments and even that isnt as solid as it had been for the last 30 years.
 
read the posts .. the liberals have three talking points .. tax those evil rich, give us more spending .. and it's Bush's fault .. after that .. their ideas fade into a grave yard of nothing.

To Objective Voice … thanks for a good post .. blame lies in all directions .. it's going to take a coming together of all people … I'm just sorry to say .. . that gap between liberals and conservatives has become so wide .. and growing wider .. both here, in our government ..and in our society I'm not sure it will happen.

In My opinion the hole we have dug is so deep .. that the only way out is for everyone to suffer.... the rich, the middle class.. and even the poor are going to have to take some hits to get us out of this mess.

I have said I would be in favor of raising taxes, dollar for dollar with verifiable spending cuts until we work our way out of this mess. Once we climb out of our debt .. I would be all in favor of redoing our entire tax codes .. lowering them for everyone, while removing most if not all deductions.

As for the debt .. and the republicans going for nothing more then a balanced budget … I agree it has to be more … but you have to stop the bleeding first .. then go on to repair the wound. So while getting to a balanced budget isn't the end all .. it's a start .. and certainly nothing to be ashamed off.
 
I'll be honest, and this comes from a very frugal person. Right now I save my money and am trying to go back to college while having a child and struggling to get back onto my feet. I pay 25% in taxes, roughly 10% of that I never will get back and the other 15% is federal that I will likely get back. To me, the people that pay more pay more because they have much more at stake and use more of the government's true resources. Specifically infrastructure and the military as they have more to protect and typically more reason to travel. Three-fours years from now once I am done with going to school part time while working a full time job, and balancing being a new dad I will be making enough towards I go into a tax bracket where in total I pay about 35% in taxes with getting little or no back, and another 5-10 years God willing I will make more and probably top out around the brackets that in total with state, federal, local I am paying around 38% of my earnings. Is that a lot? Sure. Will I be traveling more, using up more resources, and have a **** load more money and assets for my military to protect? You bet. Would I struggle one bit in an area like I live making around $85k after taxes a year and that isn't even counting my wife's income? I don't think so...in fact, I can think of plenty of ways to keep the money in ways that just aren't possible for people in the lower tax brackets. This is really I suppose anecdotal though and has nothing to do with any one persons point.
 
Paschendale said:
Of course the wealthiest are doing better because of the recession. They caused it for exactly that purpose!

And because the very next post will be "nuh uh! you have no proof!", don't forget that the housing crash came about from these rich banks and these rich corporate guys getting together to sell middle class people products that were designed to become worthless... and then set themselves up to benefit when they failed. That's called a "scam". And it had the desired effect of transferring a whole lot of money from most of the population to a tiny fraction of the population who already had most of the money.
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Of course you can come up with people that those banks and corporate guys grabbed off the street and forced them into these loans and products that were designed to become worthless ??? Or are you saying that these people are just so dumb that they can't be trusted to make intelligent decisions about their own fianances ? I'm sorry .. I forget as a liberal .. nothing is your fault .. it's up to the bankers to tell you that altho under the new lending standards you qualify for this loan, you really can't afford it .
 
JohnWOlin said:
I'll be honest, and this comes from a very frugal person. Right now I save my money and am trying to go back to college while having a child and struggling to get back onto my feet. I pay 25% in taxes, roughly 10% of that I never will get back and the other 15% is federal that I will likely get back. To me, the people that pay more pay more because they have much more at stake and use more of the government's true resources. Specifically infrastructure and the military as they have more to protect and typically more reason to travel. Three-fours years from now once I am done with going to school part time while working a full time job, and balancing being a new dad I will be making enough towards I go into a tax bracket where in total I pay about 35% in taxes with getting little or no back, and another 5-10 years God willing I will make more and probably top out around the brackets that in total with state, federal, local I am paying around 38% of my earnings. Is that a lot? Sure. Will I be traveling more, using up more resources, and have a **** load more money and assets for my military to protect? You bet. Would I struggle one bit in an area like I live making around $85k after taxes a year and that isn't even counting my wife's income? I don't think so...in fact, I can think of plenty of ways to keep the money in ways that just aren't possible for people in the lower tax brackets. This is really I suppose anecdotal though and has nothing to do with any one persons point.
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Well congrads on working to get ahead .. just one word of advice .. before you go off thinking that $85,000 income is going to make you so well off, (comfortable maybe) sit down and work the numbers . you are going to be in a 25% bracket more like 30% by the time you add in SS and Medicare, I think if you really sit down and go through the numbers .. you might be shocked.
 
TurtleDude said:
envy is not a sound basis for economic policy. The rich deal from a position of power. tax them too much and it hurts people like you in the long run. the rich pay too much of the income tax burden and that has allowed the deficit to skyrocket as too many people don't realize that government spending costs tax dollars-tax dollars they don't think they should have to pay
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:roll:

You use the government to stay rich. I know it and you know it. I have no envy for people who game the system.

The rich are shouldering nowhere near the income tax burden they have in the past. In fact, they are shouldering less than ever.
 
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toddwv said:
So the problem has nothing to do with a runaway military budget that is siphoning off TRILLIONS of dollars that could be used to build and maintain vital infrastructure?

The problem has NOTHING to do with the fact that every time that "we" deregulate the financial industry, a bunch of rich people get richer and everyone else gets screwed THEN we bail out their "failing" businesses and then the wealthy complain that they are expected to actually contribute to society not act like a bunch of parasites who suck money out of our economy and dump it in offshore accounts?
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Just another liberal talking point that has no fact base what so ever .... produce one bill passed over the last 10 years that has deregulated the financial industry .. I've asked this same thing . . various times .. and have yet to see anyone produce one of this deregulation bills they are talking about ..
 
The Barbarian said:
Just another liberal talking point that has no fact base what so ever .... produce one bill passed over the last 10 years that has deregulated the financial industry .. I've asked this same thing . . various times .. and have yet to see anyone produce one of this deregulation bills they are talking about ..
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Just go back a bit further than your phony ten year limit.

12 Deregulatory Steps to Financial Meltdown | War Is A Crime .org

one major cause


1. The repeal of Glass-Steagall

The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 formally repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 and related rules, which prohibited banks from offering investment, commercial banking, and insurance services. In 1998, Citibank and Travelers Group merged on the expectation that Glass-Steagall would be repealed. Then they set out, successfully, to make it so. The subsequent result was the infusion of the investment bank speculative culture into the world of commercial banking. The 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall helped create the conditions in which banks invested monies from checking and savings accounts into creative financial instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, investment gambles that led many of the banks to ruin and rocked the financial markets in 2008.
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and more deregulation which contrbuted to the collapse

3. CFTC blocked from regulating derivatives

Financial derivatives are unregulated. By all accounts this has been a disaster, as Warren Buffett's warning that they represent "weapons of mass financial destruction" has proven prescient -- they have amplified the financial crisis far beyond the unavoidable troubles connected to the popping of the housing bubble. During the Clinton administration, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) sought to exert regulatory control over financial derivatives, but the agency was quashed by opposition from Robert Rubin and Fed Chair Alan Greenspan.
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There is plenty more in the article. Read it. Learn. The allegation that no liberal can show you what you were looking for is really hard to believe since the facts are so easy to find and are easily available at a few strokes of the keyboard.
 
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Hay, can you support any of those arguments made with real evidence instead of everyday speculation that is seen in the article?
 
cpwill said:
this is incorrect. the rich pay a larger share of taxes now than they have for decades, and the US has found itself in possession of the most progressive income tax structure of any industrialized nation.



still selling that you don't understand the difference between nominal and effective tax rates, eh?
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Wrong again CPwill....if they pay more its because they are far richer on the backs of the middle and working class NOT because they pay more in taxs....THEY PAY LESS in taxs

Docudharma:: Historical Income Tax Rates for the Top Tax Bracket -- with Charts
 
Paschendale said:
Of course the wealthiest are doing better because of the recession. They caused it for exactly that purpose!

And because the very next post will be "nuh uh! you have no proof!", don't forget that the housing crash came about from these rich banks and these rich corporate guys getting together to sell middle class people products that were designed to become worthless... and then set themselves up to benefit when they failed. That's called a "scam". And it had the desired effect of transferring a whole lot of money from most of the population to a tiny fraction of the population who already had most of the money.
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This sort of claim belongs in the conspiracy theory thread.
 
CriticalThought said:
:roll:

You use the government to stay rich. I know it and you know it. I have no envy for people who game the system.

The rich are shouldering nowhere near the income tax burden they have in the past. In fact, they are shouldering less than ever.
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You are incorrect. the rich pay more of the federal tax burden now than they did 40 years ago. SO stop fibbing. You confuse marginal tax rates with percentages of the taxes paid. Its the poor and middle class whose share of the Federal income taxes have gone down the most
 
lpast said:
Wrong again CPwill....if they pay more its because they are far richer on the backs of the middle and working class NOT because they pay more in taxs....THEY PAY LESS in taxs
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this is incorrect - the wealthy pay a larger percentage of our taxes now than any point in the past several decades. In fact, we have The Most Progressive Income Tax System in the OECD.
 
Henrin said:
Hay, can you support any of those arguments made with real evidence instead of everyday speculation that is seen in the article?
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The article is very specific and names specific actions taken, explians their impact and explians how it led to the financial meltdown.

I have no idea what you are talking about in those broad and vague generalities of your question.

Are you contesting something specific in that article?
 
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The Barbarian said:
Well congrads on working to get ahead .. just one word of advice .. before you go off thinking that $85,000 income is going to make you so well off, (comfortable maybe) sit down and work the numbers . you are going to be in a 25% bracket more like 30% by the time you add in SS and Medicare, I think if you really sit down and go through the numbers .. you might be shocked.
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Naw I did. You would be surprised at how rich you are if you just get what you need and not a ****ing 3 car garage. I'll be living like a pimp for the rest of my life.
 
When you work as hard as I did to get my money, then I'll take your complaints seriouslty.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
When you work as hard as I did to get my money, then I'll take your complaints seriouslty.
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Right there is one of the big problems with the entire position. Everyone works hard. The poorest often work the hardest. The misguided notion that some deserve more is really just a "me! me! me!" proposition. "I'm more important, my work is more important, I deserve it more." That burger flipping kid you look down on... he works pretty damn hard, too. How about truck drivers, or nurses, or even your basic clerk who has to deal with the annoying public all day. They all work hard. You are not special.
 
You are right you probablydo work real hard. The Good Reverend just also works "smarter".

Because I choose to constanlty improve my position i have been a success. It's not my fault that you flip burgers. Nor is it my responsibilty to pay you for mindless work.
 
Guy Incognito said:
Don't believe in giving charity, eh? Apparently, the good Reverend is not a Christian.
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Oh did you assume?


Lets see. Wounded warriors, two catholic orphanages, inner city b and g clubs are but just some of the charities i am not only involved with monetarily but with my time.

A burger flipper is not a "charity".


Fail.


Btw. You? Didnt think so. :pimpdaddy:
 
Paschendale said:
Right there is one of the big problems with the entire position. Everyone works hard. The poorest often work the hardest. The misguided notion that some deserve more is really just a "me! me! me!" proposition. "I'm more important, my work is more important, I deserve it more." That burger flipping kid you look down on... he works pretty damn hard, too. How about truck drivers, or nurses, or even your basic clerk who has to deal with the annoying public all day. They all work hard. You are not special.
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that sounds good but is complete BS. The market determines who is more valuable and while that might suck to those who are not highly valued its far more realistic than letting some disgruntled individuals artificially make that determination.
 
ReverendHellh0und said:
You are right you probablydo work real hard. The Good Reverend just also works "smarter".

Because I choose to constanlty improve my position i have been a success. It's not my fault that you flip burgers. Nor is it my responsibilty to pay you for mindless work.
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Flip burgers? I go to school, make cars, raise a child, and do design work on the side (with farm work thrown in there on the weekends if it's cutting season) and I also don't talk in the third-person so +1 me.
 
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