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Thread: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

  1. #31
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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    I'll be honest, and this comes from a very frugal person. Right now I save my money and am trying to go back to college while having a child and struggling to get back onto my feet. I pay 25% in taxes, roughly 10% of that I never will get back and the other 15% is federal that I will likely get back. To me, the people that pay more pay more because they have much more at stake and use more of the government's true resources. Specifically infrastructure and the military as they have more to protect and typically more reason to travel. Three-fours years from now once I am done with going to school part time while working a full time job, and balancing being a new dad I will be making enough towards I go into a tax bracket where in total I pay about 35% in taxes with getting little or no back, and another 5-10 years God willing I will make more and probably top out around the brackets that in total with state, federal, local I am paying around 38% of my earnings. Is that a lot? Sure. Will I be traveling more, using up more resources, and have a **** load more money and assets for my military to protect? You bet. Would I struggle one bit in an area like I live making around $85k after taxes a year and that isn't even counting my wife's income? I don't think so...in fact, I can think of plenty of ways to keep the money in ways that just aren't possible for people in the lower tax brackets. This is really I suppose anecdotal though and has nothing to do with any one persons point.
    Well congrads on working to get ahead .. just one word of advice .. before you go off thinking that $85,000 income is going to make you so well off, (comfortable maybe) sit down and work the numbers . you are going to be in a 25% bracket more like 30% by the time you add in SS and Medicare, I think if you really sit down and go through the numbers .. you might be shocked.

  2. #32
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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    envy is not a sound basis for economic policy. The rich deal from a position of power. tax them too much and it hurts people like you in the long run. the rich pay too much of the income tax burden and that has allowed the deficit to skyrocket as too many people don't realize that government spending costs tax dollars-tax dollars they don't think they should have to pay


    You use the government to stay rich. I know it and you know it. I have no envy for people who game the system.

    The rich are shouldering nowhere near the income tax burden they have in the past. In fact, they are shouldering less than ever.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 06-28-11 at 07:01 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

  3. #33
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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by toddwv View Post
    So the problem has nothing to do with a runaway military budget that is siphoning off TRILLIONS of dollars that could be used to build and maintain vital infrastructure?

    The problem has NOTHING to do with the fact that every time that "we" deregulate the financial industry, a bunch of rich people get richer and everyone else gets screwed THEN we bail out their "failing" businesses and then the wealthy complain that they are expected to actually contribute to society not act like a bunch of parasites who suck money out of our economy and dump it in offshore accounts?

    Just another liberal talking point that has no fact base what so ever .... produce one bill passed over the last 10 years that has deregulated the financial industry .. I've asked this same thing . . various times .. and have yet to see anyone produce one of this deregulation bills they are talking about ..

  4. #34
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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    Just another liberal talking point that has no fact base what so ever .... produce one bill passed over the last 10 years that has deregulated the financial industry .. I've asked this same thing . . various times .. and have yet to see anyone produce one of this deregulation bills they are talking about ..
    Just go back a bit further than your phony ten year limit.

    12 Deregulatory Steps to Financial Meltdown | War Is A Crime .org

    one major cause


    1. The repeal of Glass-Steagall

    The Financial Services Modernization Act of 1999 formally repealed the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933 and related rules, which prohibited banks from offering investment, commercial banking, and insurance services. In 1998, Citibank and Travelers Group merged on the expectation that Glass-Steagall would be repealed. Then they set out, successfully, to make it so. The subsequent result was the infusion of the investment bank speculative culture into the world of commercial banking. The 1999 repeal of Glass-Steagall helped create the conditions in which banks invested monies from checking and savings accounts into creative financial instruments such as mortgage-backed securities and credit default swaps, investment gambles that led many of the banks to ruin and rocked the financial markets in 2008.
    and more deregulation which contrbuted to the collapse

    3. CFTC blocked from regulating derivatives

    Financial derivatives are unregulated. By all accounts this has been a disaster, as Warren Buffett's warning that they represent "weapons of mass financial destruction" has proven prescient -- they have amplified the financial crisis far beyond the unavoidable troubles connected to the popping of the housing bubble. During the Clinton administration, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) sought to exert regulatory control over financial derivatives, but the agency was quashed by opposition from Robert Rubin and Fed Chair Alan Greenspan.
    There is plenty more in the article. Read it. Learn. The allegation that no liberal can show you what you were looking for is really hard to believe since the facts are so easy to find and are easily available at a few strokes of the keyboard.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-28-11 at 07:52 AM.
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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Hay, can you support any of those arguments made with real evidence instead of everyday speculation that is seen in the article?

  6. #36
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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    this is incorrect. the rich pay a larger share of taxes now than they have for decades, and the US has found itself in possession of the most progressive income tax structure of any industrialized nation.



    still selling that you don't understand the difference between nominal and effective tax rates, eh?

    Wrong again CPwill....if they pay more its because they are far richer on the backs of the middle and working class NOT because they pay more in taxs....THEY PAY LESS in taxs

    Docudharma:: Historical Income Tax Rates for the Top Tax Bracket -- with Charts

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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Of course the wealthiest are doing better because of the recession. They caused it for exactly that purpose!

    And because the very next post will be "nuh uh! you have no proof!", don't forget that the housing crash came about from these rich banks and these rich corporate guys getting together to sell middle class people products that were designed to become worthless... and then set themselves up to benefit when they failed. That's called a "scam". And it had the desired effect of transferring a whole lot of money from most of the population to a tiny fraction of the population who already had most of the money.
    This sort of claim belongs in the conspiracy theory thread.

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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post


    You use the government to stay rich. I know it and you know it. I have no envy for people who game the system.

    The rich are shouldering nowhere near the income tax burden they have in the past. In fact, they are shouldering less than ever.
    You are incorrect. the rich pay more of the federal tax burden now than they did 40 years ago. SO stop fibbing. You confuse marginal tax rates with percentages of the taxes paid. Its the poor and middle class whose share of the Federal income taxes have gone down the most

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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Wrong again CPwill....if they pay more its because they are far richer on the backs of the middle and working class NOT because they pay more in taxs....THEY PAY LESS in taxs
    this is incorrect - the wealthy pay a larger percentage of our taxes now than any point in the past several decades. In fact, we have The Most Progressive Income Tax System in the OECD.

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    Re: Millionaires shrug off the downturn

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Hay, can you support any of those arguments made with real evidence instead of everyday speculation that is seen in the article?
    The article is very specific and names specific actions taken, explians their impact and explians how it led to the financial meltdown.

    I have no idea what you are talking about in those broad and vague generalities of your question.

    Are you contesting something specific in that article?
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-28-11 at 10:45 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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