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Thread: Top Dem picks Huntsman

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Not liberals. Your independents, slight conservatives, and probably moderate conservatives as well. Plus, if the slight liberals are liking him as well then it means it would be even harder for Obama to win. You don't want another four years of Obama right?
    Swapping one liberal for another liberal is a loss not a gain.

    You will find that if the GOP runs a conservative on the conservative values the GOP had years ago they will win.

    I am talking about lower taxes, lower spending, a balanced budget, less entitelments.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Yeah, I've read that. It confirms exactly what I said.

    He's the least experienced candidate in this race.
    You mean he is not a Washington insider that will give us more of the same we have had for the last 20 years or so

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    You mean he is not a Washington insider that will give us more of the same we have had for the last 20 years or so
    Know who else ran on that platform?







    They were outsiders too.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 06-22-11 at 03:10 PM.
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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    There was more than 2 there was also healthcare. The link shows he is a liberal. That is why the dems want him. Then your choice will be which liberal is better.
    Right, like I said...2 fiscal issues built themselves upon cherry picking. Those being:

    Health Care = Which ignored that individual mandate at one time was a conservative idea AND that he pushed for private sector focused reform through tax incentives as governor

    and

    Cap and Trade = Which ignored that the legislation he passed about it must've not been too stringent on Business since it was still a top rated state for business after it, and he's stated he does not support Cap and Trade right now at a national level.

    No, your link doesn't show that he's a liberal. It CHERRY PICKS a few issues where he breaks with conservatives on and attempts to use those few positions to declare him a liberal while ignoring EVERYTHING else he's done.

    Picking 3 or 4 things and ignoring everthing else is pretty much the definition of cherry picking.

    Not me I no longer vote the lesser of 2 evils. I can vote for the conservative constitution party
    Be my guest.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Okay, allow me to clarify don, Zyph. My point is, that leading up to elections, I've noted this trend that the GOP cannot dare back a Conservative Leader. That's the way of madness, that democrats and moderates and Independents won't go for it. In 2008 it was McCain, this year's current "Moderate dejour" is Huntsman. The arguments are always the same; Conservative must sacrifice their beliefs, sacrifice principles if they want to win.

    Why?

    I point to Reagan, and 1994, as examples of Pushing Conservatism can win elections.
    I don't seek to make that argument at all. Indeed, a candidate with impeccable conservative credentials and a vision, record, and strong leadership/communications skills could be very viable. Governor Christie would make a formidable contender, especially as he has created an early record of making tough choices and also achieving bipartisan agreement over seemingly intractable pension/health benefits. Governor Perry might be a strong contender, as well.

    Also, one cannot fail to mention that President Reagan was the kind of once-in-a-generation transformational leader. Transformational leaders along the lines of an FDR, JFK, or Reagan are not present in every election. He could do what Barry Goldwater could not because of his extraordinary leadership abilities.

    In the current field, those with arguably the most conservative positions face challenges, not so much due to their views, but more due to their own limitations. Senator Santorum lacks a broad vision that runs beyond social issues and is also seeking to rebound from a devastating defeat in his Senate re-election bid. Congresswoman Bachmann did well in her first debate (minor issue about ridiculing France, a strategic ally), but has work to do to demonstrate that she has gained the experience necessary to avoid the gaffes that have marked her political career. She has an opening on account of her debate performance but has a lot of work to do. Herman Cain is, to be blunt, a political lightweight who will not be a serious contender. Ron Paul is more prophet than political leader. He has unwavering commitment to his libertarian ideology, but lacks the communication abilities and policy specifics to align broad support for his vision.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Right, like I said...2 fiscal issues built themselves upon cherry picking. Those being:

    Health Care = Which ignored that individual mandate at one time was a conservative idea AND that he pushed for private sector focused reform through tax incentives as governor

    and

    Cap and Trade = Which ignored that the legislation he passed about it must've not been too stringent on Business since it was still a top rated state for business after it, and he's stated he does not support Cap and Trade right now at a national level.

    No, your link doesn't show that he's a liberal. It CHERRY PICKS a few issues where he breaks with conservatives on and attempts to use those few positions to declare him a liberal while ignoring EVERYTHING else he's done.

    Picking 3 or 4 things and ignoring everthing else is pretty much the definition of cherry picking.



    Be my guest.
    You forget his spending. Cherry picking he is known as a moderate so yes he is left leaning or liberal if you prefer or he would not be called moderate. He offers nothings for conservatives just more of the same failed policies
    Last edited by ptif219; 06-22-11 at 03:19 PM.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The right thing for liberals? He offers conservatives nothing
    Indeed. What conservative would EVER want someone who would institute a flat tax, reduce taxes in general, push for business friendly policies, create an environment where business want to come to, raise GDP at a large rate, lower government spending increases comparitive to the increase of GDP, support Israel staunchly, work to end any North Korea nuclear capability, secure the border first, and supports the Ryan Budget plan.

    Why would a conservative want any of that. Its obvious he offers NOTHING to conservative voters.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't seek to make that argument at all. Indeed, a candidate with impeccable conservative credentials and a vision, record, and strong leadership/communications skills could be very viable. Governor Christie would make a formidable contender, especially as he has created an early record of making tough choices and also achieving bipartisan agreement over seemingly intractable pension/health benefits. Governor Perry might be a strong contender, as well.

    Also, one cannot fail to mention that President Reagan was the kind of once-in-a-generation transformational leader. Transformational leaders along the lines of an FDR, JFK, or Reagan are not present in every election. He could do what Barry Goldwater could not because of his extraordinary leadership abilities.

    In the current field, those with arguably the most conservative positions face challenges, not so much due to their views, but more due to their own limitations. Senator Santorum lacks a broad vision that runs beyond social issues and is also seeking to rebound from a devastating defeat in his Senate re-election bid. Congresswoman Bachmann did well in her first debate (minor issue about ridiculing France, a strategic ally), but has work to do to demonstrate that she has gained the experience necessary to avoid the gaffes that have marked her political career. She has an opening on account of her debate performance but has a lot of work to do. Herman Cain is, to be blunt, a political lightweight who will not be a serious contender. Ron Paul is more prophet than political leader. He has unwavering commitment to his libertarian ideology, but lacks the communication abilities and policy specifics to align broad support for his vision.
    The polls are all over the place. I expect to see a conservative. I think Huntsman has little chance. I feel the same about Romney

    Michele Bachmann tops new 2012 poll | Iowa Independent

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't seek to make that argument at all. Indeed, a candidate with impeccable conservative credentials and a vision, record, and strong leadership/communications skills could be very viable. Governor Christie would make a formidable contender, especially as he has created an early record of making tough choices and also achieving bipartisan agreement over seemingly intractable pension/health benefits. Governor Perry might be a strong contender, as well.
    Oh I wasn't, and I'm sorry if I came across that way so much going after your stance as I was clarifying my motivation.
    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Also, one cannot fail to mention that President Reagan was the kind of once-in-a-generation transformational leader. Transformational leaders along the lines of an FDR, JFK, or Reagan are not present in every election. He could do what Barry Goldwater could not because of his extraordinary leadership abilities.
    I firmly agree with you. He was indeed, but that doesn't mean we cannot strive to match his legacy.
    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In the current field, those with arguably the most conservative positions face challenges, not so much due to their views, but more due to their own limitations. Senator Santorum lacks a broad vision that runs beyond social issues and is also seeking to rebound from a devastating defeat in his Senate re-election bid. Congresswoman Bachmann did well in her first debate (minor issue about ridiculing France, a strategic ally), but has work to do to demonstrate that she has gained the experience necessary to avoid the gaffes that have marked her political career. She has an opening on account of her debate performance but has a lot of work to do. Herman Cain is, to be blunt, a political lightweight who will not be a serious contender. Ron Paul is more prophet than political leader. He has unwavering commitment to his libertarian ideology, but lacks the communication abilities and policy specifics to align broad support for his vision.
    Santorum is a non-player in my book, I just don't think he's going to get anywhere. I see him as the GOP "John Edwards" role this time. (In political position and purpose, not personality).
    Bachmann has some good momentum but she will face an extremely hostile media.
    Cain is politically untested, but I believe he's a stronger candidate then you give him credit for.
    Ron Paul is Ron Paul, he runs, he gets a lot of excitement among a niche group and goes no where.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Okay, allow me to clarify don, Zyph. My point is, that leading up to elections, I've noted this trend that the GOP cannot dare back a Conservative Leader. That's the way of madness, that democrats and moderates and Independents won't go for it. In 2008 it was McCain, this year's current "Moderate dejour" is Huntsman. The arguments are always the same; Conservative must sacrifice their beliefs, sacrifice principles if they want to win.

    Why?

    I point to Reagan, and 1994, as examples of Pushing Conservatism can win elections.
    My support for Huntsman Vicc has nothing to do with the notion that we cannot dare back a Conservative leader. My singular view point regarding that is we cannot dare back someone who wants to make social conservatism the primary focal point of their campaign...such as Santorum has promised to do at the recent debate. Look at almost any social issue in this country and you'll see that there is NOT a strong split to either side. Focusing heavily on gay marriage, which ultimately is going to come down to the courts because a constitutional amendment is highly unlikely, and abortion, which ultimately is a court issue at this point, is a useless endevour in the current climate.

    We're at a climate where Fiscal and Governmental issues are the most important things for the majority of Americans...Liberal, Conservative, or Moderate. Now, contrary to what you suggest, I think we need someone who is distinctly conservative in those areas to be able to capitalize on it. For the first time in decades I think we are in the position to substantially win over Independents and "Reagan Democrats" in substantial numbers and turn them onto conservatism. NOT "become moderate and get them" but actually turn them onto Conservatism, or at the least fiscal and governmental conservatism.

    The thing is though, its VERY possible to be fiscally and governmentally conservative but socially moderate or liberal. And the problem with social issues is they generally are also the most EMOTIONAL issues. If we focus heavily on emotional controversial social issues during an election that those aren't really heavily on the public at larges mind we risk blowing this chance to actually attract new people under the Big Tent and losing.

    So when I'm looking at what candidate I'm wanting to support, first and foremost in this election I am following Tea Party philosophy and I'm looking SINGULARLY at Fiscal and Governmental Conservative credentials first off. Next, personally, I look to see if they're going to focus on that or if they're going to push for a Social Conservative agenda just as much...and specifically if they're going to push for a BIG GOVERNMENT Conservative agenda such as those advocating cahnging the constitution to for the first time since prohibition RESTRICT people not government from doing something. Ditto in regards to their foreign/military policy. After that I start going into the various tertiary things such as their experience, their electability, their political savy, etc.

    There is no perfect candidate right now. I've got issues with all of them. Huntsman is not 100% ideal perfect guy for me. However, he's as good fiscally and governmentally in my mind as any of the other candidates. Does he have some blemishes? Yes. On the flip side though, he has far more accomplishments, experience, and actual credentials regarding his fiscal and governmental conservative traits than those who lack the blemishes save for POSSIBLY Santorum and Paul. However, Santorum fails #2 for me as he's a big government social conservative who plans to make social issues a major portion of his campaign. And Paul fails for a bit for me in regards to the military policy and many of the tertiary issues.

    Huntsman is a top 3 guy for me in this crowd currently with regards to fiscal and governmental conservatism. He fits the bill as someone whose not going to make social issues a major part of his campaign. He seems to be similar to a 2000 George Bush in regards to foreign policy which is a thumbs up from me. He's got the best experience out of ANYONE on either side in this as both a Govenor, cabinet like positions under Presidents, and as an Ambassador. He's got solid past conservative credentials serving Reagan and both Bush's while he has a good shield from some Obama attacks due to being Ambassador under him. It also allows him to show he honestly seeks to serve the country, where he walks that walk rather than Obama who simply talked about "bipartisanship" and "Post partisanship".

    Is he perfect? No, but his entire package, to me, is the best. And not because I want a "moderate" or a "liberal" or someone whose not a "conservative", because that's not true. I am a Tea Partier and my concerns are FISCAL AND GOVERNMENTAL conservatism, just like the Contract From America states, and to me he's solidly that kind of conservative. And I wouldn't have it any other way with the candidate I support.

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