Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 211

Thread: Top Dem picks Huntsman

  1. #61
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    melbourne florida
    Last Seen
    09-24-15 @ 12:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,156

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    In my view, and I fully recognize that there are other schools of foreign policy, several principles are important:

    1. The Constitution is the ultimate source of foreign policy authority for the U.S. government. No other source can supersede the Constitution e.g., UN Security Council resolutions are not a substitute for circumventing Constitutional requirements.

    2. The U.S. has critical interests in many parts of the world.

    3. U.S. foreign policy should be grounded in those critical interests.

    4. The U.S. also has strategic allies.

    5. The balance of power is a key underpinning of global stability and the U.S. should do what it can to assure that the balance of power is consistent with its interests and the needs of its strategic allies.

    6. Military power should be used wisely. It should not be utilized when critical U.S. interests/security of strategic allies are not under attack or credible imminent danger. Intervention in civil wars that have little connection to U.S. interests or solely to promote political change that has little connection to U.S. interests is a misapplication of military force.

    7. Abdication/non-interventionism/neo-isolationism would be a disastrous policy. It would make the U.S. a bystander, deprive it of an ability to influence events, and undermine the reliability of its commitments. Far from enhancing its security, it would undermine its security and interests.

    8. An effective foreign policy leverages the nation's economic, technical, diplomatic, and military capabilities, using the tool or combination that reasonably offers the best chance at success (consistent with U.S. interests, the needs of its strategic allies, and U.S. values).
    So are you saying we need a liberal that will cave to the UN?

  2. #62
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    So are you saying we need a liberal that will cave to the UN?
    The opposite. See especially point #1. What the UN desires is not always compatible with U.S. interests. A classic example is the UN General Assembly's stance vis-a-vis Israel. The U.S. should not cave to the General Assembly's will, no matter how overwhelming the General Assembly's votes might be.

    On a separate matter, the political turmoil in Libya does not impact critical U.S. interests. I do not believe the U.S. should be using its military forces to pursue regime change in Libya. The same held true with respect to Somalia in the early 1990s. No critical U.S. interests were at stake. No strategic allies were threatened. The U.S. should not have sent military forces to Somalia.
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 06-22-11 at 12:44 PM.

  3. #63
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    melbourne florida
    Last Seen
    09-24-15 @ 12:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,156

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    The opposite. See especially point #1. What the UN desires is not always compatible with U.S. interests. A classic example is the UN General Assembly's stance vis-a-vis Israel. The U.S. should not cave to the General Assembly's will, no matter how overwhelming the General Assembly's votes might be.

    On a separate matter, the political turmoil in Libya does not impact critical U.S. interests. I do not believe the U.S. should be using its military forces to pursue regime change in Libya. The same held true with respect to Somalia in the early 1990s. No critical U.S. interests were at stake. No strategic allies were threatened. The U.S. should not have sent military forces to Somalia.
    We are talking about Huntsman not your opinions

  4. #64
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,994

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Cap and Trade = Yes, he took action with this at a state level. He did it in such a way that it seemingly didn't significantly affect business since even after it his state was a top 3 state for business to start up shop. He's also publicly stated that he feels that such a system like Obama is pushing for is not something the country needs or should do currently with the state of our economy

    Individual Health Care Mandate = Yes, he's supported it in a general sense though has not supported it to my knowledge directly relating to Obamacare. Which doesn't make him different than the majority of the Republican Party in the 90's who agreed with the notion as well. Indeed, the issues with the individual mandate didn't crop up on the right until Obamacare and the fact it was viewed as a potential way to backdoor UHC in the future and as a way to possibly get it tossed out.

    It also "Cherry Picks" things as while Governor he offered up a reform plan that focused on private sector methods of reform by attemptin to give tax breaks and incentives to insurers, similar to what Republicans wanted to do on a federal level. So it only gives part of his health care story.

    Amnesty = Not sure where your source got its information since it doesn't offer any reference, but I've found absolutely zero evidence that Huntsman has stated he's in favor of amnesty. Zero. If you can provide some legislation he supported or a statement of him supporting it, then perhaps that may change my mind. A random article stating he supports it when I find no reference to that anywhere doesn't.

    At worse Huntsman has said the notion of a border fense repulses him because its so backwards to the image of what America is supposed to be. But, immedietely following that, he stated that the fact of the matter is that we don't have much of a choice based on the situation we face today and we've got to process the border first. THEN we can figure out what to do with the illegals in this country. Wasn't this what Republicans called for all throughout the debate? SECURE THE BORDER, and then lets have the debate about what to do after that.

    Trade Agreements = This is hardly one that we can even nail down as being "conservative" or not because half of conservatism seems to think Free Trade is absolutely necessary and the other half seems to think its horrible and needs to be abolished. Huntsman is in favor of free trade agreements.

    So for all your talk of "Cherry Picking" on my part the 4 things you use to counter all my points about him being a Fiscal Conservative are:

    1. Environmental issues, which he did in such a way to keep his state strong for business and has stated he's against doing cap and trade federally at this time
    2. In favor of an individual mandate, which isn't far off what was a general view of Republicans some years ago and ignores his push for medical reform focused on private sector incentives.
    3. In favor of amnesty, even though nothings been provided that shows he actually IS in favor of it and there's quotes out there of him saying reality is we must secure our border first then figure things out
    4. He's for free trade agreements

    That's your killer bullet to prove he's a "moderate to left leaning" Republican?

    Yes, he's in favor of civil unions. I will not deny, the guy is ABSOLUTELY moderate when it comes to Social Conservatism. However, if being moderate in one area of Conservatism makes one a "moderate left leaning" Republican then there's a lot more that deserve that title then just Huntsman and I'm not just talking about Snowe and her ilk.

    Your article then goes on to talk about his "wild" spending, looking at it from only one area. It talkes about the Cato centers view of his spending. However, it FAILS to mention that despite their view on that spending that all told, his policies...taxes, spending, etc...still tied him as the 5th best governor in the country regarding fiscal issues.

    And lets continue Cherry Picking. Like how they condemn him for taking an Ambassadorship from Obama as if thats proof he's not conservative...and yet he worked in the White House for Ronald Reagan (Guess he's a RINO now too?). He was an Ambassador and a deputy secretary for GHWB. He was a high official for GWB as well. The man wishes to serve his country and feels that when such an honor is asked of you you serve your country. But lets ignore him serving in the white house, sometimes in a similar position, for 3 other Republican Presidents...he did it with Obama, BOO HISS.

    Yes, your link definitely proved your point so well.

  5. #65
    Sage

    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    12-13-17 @ 12:40 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    11,691

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    We are talking about Huntsman not your opinions
    I don't have any credible evidence that Amb. Huntsman holds such a view.

  6. #66
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,994

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The point is that does not matter at this point. Compared to Obama Cain is more expierenced for what the economy needs.
    But we're not talking about Obama, we're still in the primaries. If Obama shouldn't have been President because he didn't have the experience, then Cain shouldn't be beating the other people to have a chance to be President because he doesn't have any experience.

  7. #67
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Zyphlin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    NoMoAuchie
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,994

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Zyphlin I think what we are seeing is that you aren't a true conservative unless you are a social conservative and fiscal conservative and it is a shame.
    I can buy that. If you want to say Paleo-conservatives are the only "true" conservatives...fine. In that case there are no "true conservatives" in the race because Santorum and Bachmann, from what I understand, both have a rather aggressive, government interventionary, world policing mentality that isn't conservative in regards to Militaristic conservatism and both are moderate Governmental Conservatives because they don't mind the government telling people what to do and interjecting itself into peoples lives if its for "moral" reasons.

    One can still be Conservative rather than Moderate though without being a "true" conservative in such a case.

    It seems like when McCain started going right on social areas is where he began to lose the independent vote.
    Mccain lost independent votes when he started to fake going right, in general. McCain is a good definition of a moderate conservative almost across the board.

    Also, what is a positive about Huntsman is that the Democrats and other left leaning groups will have a harder time going after him.
    Absolutely agree. You can't make him out as this crazy lunatic, because if you do you then question Obama's decision making. Ditto if you suggest that he's not responsable, or isn't trust worthy, or is out of touch, and on and on.

  8. #68
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    melbourne florida
    Last Seen
    09-24-15 @ 12:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,156

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Cap and Trade = Yes, he took action with this at a state level. He did it in such a way that it seemingly didn't significantly affect business since even after it his state was a top 3 state for business to start up shop. He's also publicly stated that he feels that such a system like Obama is pushing for is not something the country needs or should do currently with the state of our economy

    Individual Health Care Mandate = Yes, he's supported it in a general sense though has not supported it to my knowledge directly relating to Obamacare. Which doesn't make him different than the majority of the Republican Party in the 90's who agreed with the notion as well. Indeed, the issues with the individual mandate didn't crop up on the right until Obamacare and the fact it was viewed as a potential way to backdoor UHC in the future and as a way to possibly get it tossed out.

    It also "Cherry Picks" things as while Governor he offered up a reform plan that focused on private sector methods of reform by attemptin to give tax breaks and incentives to insurers, similar to what Republicans wanted to do on a federal level. So it only gives part of his health care story.

    Amnesty = Not sure where your source got its information since it doesn't offer any reference, but I've found absolutely zero evidence that Huntsman has stated he's in favor of amnesty. Zero. If you can provide some legislation he supported or a statement of him supporting it, then perhaps that may change my mind. A random article stating he supports it when I find no reference to that anywhere doesn't.

    At worse Huntsman has said the notion of a border fense repulses him because its so backwards to the image of what America is supposed to be. But, immedietely following that, he stated that the fact of the matter is that we don't have much of a choice based on the situation we face today and we've got to process the border first. THEN we can figure out what to do with the illegals in this country. Wasn't this what Republicans called for all throughout the debate? SECURE THE BORDER, and then lets have the debate about what to do after that.

    Trade Agreements = This is hardly one that we can even nail down as being "conservative" or not because half of conservatism seems to think Free Trade is absolutely necessary and the other half seems to think its horrible and needs to be abolished. Huntsman is in favor of free trade agreements.

    So for all your talk of "Cherry Picking" on my part the 4 things you use to counter all my points about him being a Fiscal Conservative are:

    1. Environmental issues, which he did in such a way to keep his state strong for business and has stated he's against doing cap and trade federally at this time
    2. In favor of an individual mandate, which isn't far off what was a general view of Republicans some years ago and ignores his push for medical reform focused on private sector incentives.
    3. In favor of amnesty, even though nothings been provided that shows he actually IS in favor of it and there's quotes out there of him saying reality is we must secure our border first then figure things out
    4. He's for free trade agreements

    That's your killer bullet to prove he's a "moderate to left leaning" Republican?

    Yes, he's in favor of civil unions. I will not deny, the guy is ABSOLUTELY moderate when it comes to Social Conservatism. However, if being moderate in one area of Conservatism makes one a "moderate left leaning" Republican then there's a lot more that deserve that title then just Huntsman and I'm not just talking about Snowe and her ilk.

    Your article then goes on to talk about his "wild" spending, looking at it from only one area. It talkes about the Cato centers view of his spending. However, it FAILS to mention that despite their view on that spending that all told, his policies...taxes, spending, etc...still tied him as the 5th best governor in the country regarding fiscal issues.

    And lets continue Cherry Picking. Like how they condemn him for taking an Ambassadorship from Obama as if thats proof he's not conservative...and yet he worked in the White House for Ronald Reagan (Guess he's a RINO now too?). He was an Ambassador and a deputy secretary for GHWB. He was a high official for GWB as well. The man wishes to serve his country and feels that when such an honor is asked of you you serve your country. But lets ignore him serving in the white house, sometimes in a similar position, for 3 other Republican Presidents...he did it with Obama, BOO HISS.

    Yes, your link definitely proved your point so well.
    Correct it shows Huntsman is a liberal and that is why democrats want him as the GOP nominee.

    I will not vote for this liberal Obama wannabe

  9. #69
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    melbourne florida
    Last Seen
    09-24-15 @ 12:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    13,156

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But we're not talking about Obama, we're still in the primaries. If Obama shouldn't have been President because he didn't have the experience, then Cain shouldn't be beating the other people to have a chance to be President because he doesn't have any experience.
    Problem is Obama claimed he had the expierence.

    Cain has leadership expierence and multiple expierence in several large companies. he knows what it takes to balance a budget and get people back to work.

    We do not need another liberal. Obama even puts Huntsmans name out there yet he does not mention the GOP Blackman.

    If you look at history you will find that except for Goldwater conservatives standing on conservative values win presidential elections

  10. #70
    Distributist
    Jeezy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 03:15 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    1,326

    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Cain has leadership expierence and multiple expierence in several large companies. he knows what it takes to balance a budget and get people back to work.

    We do not need another liberal. Obama even puts Huntsmans name out there yet he does not mention the GOP Blackman.



    ...but seriously, Cain has never held public office. His leadership experience is being CEO of a pizza company, and being a conservative talk show host. You can throw the federal reserve thing at me, but he was on the civilian board, which just means he was a CEO of a certain large company in a certain region. The CEO of JCPenny is on a similar board. Doesn't mean he has any economic training, or is ready to be president.

    In fact, I can safely say that Herman Cain is the least experienced candidate in this race.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 06-22-11 at 01:24 PM.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 5678917 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •