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Thread: Top Dem picks Huntsman

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Zyphlin I think what we are seeing is that you aren't a true conservative unless you are a social conservative and fiscal conservative and it is a shame. Which honestly, is what will hurt the GOP with independents. It seems like when McCain started going right on social areas is where he began to lose the independent vote. To me, it would be silly to not put some one up that has a record of good fiscal policy while in executive office and could help the financial situation of the country, but he doesn't get the nomination because his views of gay marriage and abortion do not jive with the rest of the party. Those two issues are probably the last thing on people's mind.

    Also, what is a positive about Huntsman is that the Democrats and other left leaning groups will have a harder time going after him. The Citizens United case will change the way political ads run, but the President himself has such a lead in funds that no GOP member will catch up to him. Huntsman seems to be, so far, the type of candidate that not all billion of Obama's funds can be used for attack ads.
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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    That's it Zyph... Feel the pain we all feel debating Ptif...
    The pain he can not refute my links?

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by soccerboy22 View Post
    Zyphlin I think what we are seeing is that you aren't a true conservative unless you are a social conservative and fiscal conservative and it is a shame. Which honestly, is what will hurt the GOP with independents. It seems like when McCain started going right on social areas is where he began to lose the independent vote. To me, it would be silly to not put some one up that has a record of good fiscal policy while in executive office and could help the financial situation of the country, but he doesn't get the nomination because his views of gay marriage and abortion do not jive with the rest of the party. Those two issues are probably the last thing on people's mind.

    Also, what is a positive about Huntsman is that the Democrats and other left leaning groups will have a harder time going after him. The Citizens United case will change the way political ads run, but the President himself has such a lead in funds that no GOP member will catch up to him. Huntsman seems to be, so far, the type of candidate that not all billion of Obama's funds can be used for attack ads.
    I posted this and it has been ignored

    “Moderate” Jon Huntsman’s Record Scrutinized For 2012 Bid


    Consider: Huntsman has supported unconstitutional cap-and-trade schemes that would drive up the costs of energy; individual health-care mandates similar to the one under attack in ObamaCare; civil unions for gay couples; amnesty for illegal immigrants; sovereignty-destroying “trade” agreements; and many other measures opposed by rank-and-file conservatives. Another big liability for Huntsman is the fact that he served in the Obama administration.

    While Huntsman regularly touts his moderate tax-cutting credentials acquired during his time as governor of Utah, less well known is that state government spending increased wildly under his administration. According to a 2008 study by the liberty-minded Cato Institute, “Huntsman has completely dropped the ball on spending, with per capita spending increasing at about 10 percent annually during his tenure.”

    His positions on discredited man-made global-warming theories and supposed “solutions” for the non-problem will represent a big challenge to overcome as well. In 2007, he appeared in a TV ad urging the U.S. government to impose an unconstitutional carbon regime on Americans. "Now it's time for Congress to act by capping greenhouse-gas pollution," he says in the advertisement, paid for by an extremist group known as Environmental Defense.

    During his time as Governor of Utah, Huntsman also hitched the state to the Western Climate Initiative. The regional “cap and trade” scheme, involving various U.S. and Mexican states as well as some Canadian provinces, would dramatically increase energy costs in a supposed effort to battle “climate change.” Though Huntsman recently backed away from his global-warming alarmism, the stench of his record on the issues will probably be tough to shed.

    In addition to negotiating the unconstitutional interstate climate compact with foreign authorities, Huntsman has impeccable “globalist” credentials in other areas as well. For example, he was a long-time member of the infamous, world-government promoting Council on Foreign Relations. He also served as a founding director of the Pacific Council on International Policy, an organization founded in 1995 in partnership with the CFR.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    The pain he can not refute my links?
    No.

    The pain of debating someone without an ounce of skill, knowledge, reason, critical thinking skills and the ability to understand even the most basic concepts of well... Anything.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    I see we want more life long politicians that have screwed up this country. Cain has through his life shown he can fix companies with financial problems.
    I don't believe that is Zyphlin's point at all. Rather, he is pointing to the issue that Mr. Cain's experience may be overly narrow. The problems, tasks, and goals in running a business are far narrower than those involved in governance. The former are primarily economic/financial. The latter relate to economic, financial, defense, social welfare, foreign policy, etc., matters. In the former, the trade-offs are less numerous. In the latter, they are more numerous and also more complex. In business, one is dealing with customers and completely voluntary transactions. In the latter, one is dealing with constituents and the relationships are not always voluntary. In the former, a CEO can, in cases, impose decisions to break deadlocks. In the latter, Presidents must work with others e.g., Congress, to translate vision into policy. In the former, a CEO can enjoy long tenure so long as he/she retains the confidence of the Board (over which he/she might have had substantial influence in shaping). In the latter, electoral cycles are relevant.

    To date, Herman Cain has not provided any indication that he can make the leap from business success to political success. In the most recent debate, his performance was quite superficial. He seemed out of his league offering some generalities but little of concrete substance.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    So a politico in one corpgov party picks/says positive things, etc. about a politico in the other corpgov party. It's meaningless. Completely meaningless. In the end you/we are still dealing with corpgov. What you seem to be doing and what partisans of both parties do is no different than picking/backing one of two mafia families to help stop organized crime. I don't care which family you pick or the "leaders" you like, in the end you get one of the two crime families. Which crime family is it that is going to stop organized crime? Neither. But people continue to do as they've always done and things stay the same as they always have.
    Last edited by Risky Thicket; 06-22-11 at 12:04 PM.










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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by ptif219 View Post
    Consider: Huntsman has supported unconstitutional cap-and-trade schemes...
    Whatever one thinks about the viability of cap-and-trade, such a market-based approach has been used successfully in the past by the U.S. for dealing with such issues as sulfur dioxide emissions responsible for acid rain. If cap-and-trade wasn't unconsitutional then, it wouldn't be unconsitutional now. The area of debate is whether such an approach would be feasible when it relates to such a broad area of economic activity as would be entailed with carbon dioxide. In other words, would the cost-benefit calculus be different from what it was when the U.S. eliminated the use of CFCs, greatly reduced sulfur dioxide emissions, etc.

    For example, he was a long-time member of the infamous, world-government promoting Council on Foreign Relations.
    There's nothing "infamous" or sinister about the Council on Foreign Relations. It is a long-established policy organization that aims to help its audience "better understand the world and the foreign policy choices facing the United States and other countries." The breadth of its membership includes some of the world's leading diplomats and foreign policy scholars from a range of foreign policy perspectives (liberal internationalist, realist, and neoconservative, among others).
    Last edited by donsutherland1; 06-27-11 at 11:15 AM. Reason: Typo.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    No.

    The pain of debating someone without an ounce of skill, knowledge, reason, critical thinking skills and the ability to understand even the most basic concepts of well... Anything.

    The problem is you have nothing to refute the facts i back up with links

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    I don't believe that is Zyphlin's point at all. Rather, he is pointing to the issue that Mr. Cain's experience may be overly narrow. The problems, tasks, and goals in running a business are far narrower than those involved in governance. The former are primarily economic/financial. The latter relate to economic, financial, defense, social welfare, foreign policy, etc., matters. In the former, the trade-offs are less numerous. In the latter, they are more numerous and also more complex. In business, one is dealing with customers and completely voluntary transactions. In the latter, one is dealing with constituents and the relationships are not always voluntary. In the former, a CEO can, in cases, impose decisions to break deadlocks. In the latter, Presidents must work with others e.g., Congress, to translate vision into policy. In the former, a CEO can enjoy long tenure so long as he/she retains the confidence of the Board (over which he/she might have had substantial influence in shaping). In the latter, electoral cycles are relevant.

    To date, Herman Cain has not provided any indication that he can make the leap from business success to political success. In the most recent debate, his performance was quite superficial. He seemed out of his league offering some generalities but little of concrete substance.
    Well then in the debate he acted like a politician lol

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by donsutherland1 View Post
    Whatever one things about the viability of cap-and-trade, such a market-based approach has been used successfully in the past by the U.S. for dealing with such issues as sulfur dioxide emissions responsible for acid rain. If cap-and-trade wasn't unconsitutional then, it wouldn't be unconsitutional now. The area of debate is whether such an approach would be feasible when it relates to such a broad area of economic activity as would be entailed with carbon dioxide. In other words, would the cost-benefit calculus be different from what it was when the U.S. eliminated the use of CFCs, greatly reduced sulfur dioxide emissions, etc.



    There's nothing "infamous" or sinister about the Council on Foreign Relations. It is a long-established policy organization that aims to help its audience "better understand the world and the foreign policy choices facing the United States and other countries." The breadth of its membership includes some of the world's leading diplomats and foreign policy scholars from a range of foreign policy perspectives (liberal internationalist, realist, and neoconservative, among others).
    You vote for a tax and spend liberal that is globalists that will cave into the UN issues I will not I want a conservative and I do not want to pay more taxes because of the GW scam

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