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Thread: Top Dem picks Huntsman

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Weren't you accusing me earlier of moving the message?

    First it was that he wasn't a washington insider, now its that he doesn't owe people votes?
    A lobbyists is not the same as the lifelong insider politicians but keep trying

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I saw post 102, it made the same unsubstantiated claim that yours made.
    So vote for the liberal and you will get the same you are getting now

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Can't see the video, which may be why I couldn't find anything as I've been having to look at writing. What'd he say in the video?

    And I agree, we can't just deport 12 million people. It'd be far to costly and require to much of an expansion of government to manage it.

    However, we could absolutely as we secure the border and after ramp up our enforcement of the laws, crack down on businesses employing them, and pass laws that limit their access to public services all of which discourages their staying in this country. We can create a more streamlined and simple immigration process and work visa program to lower the available jobs to them and incentive to come over. Then if we are actually enforcing our laws and we've actually secured our borders and we've actually reworked our policy then we can possibly look at a path to citizenship of some sort for those still here.

    And for anyone that claims "OMG YOU CAN'T BE CONSERVATIVE IF YOU SUPPORT THAT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM" I do hope I never hear the word Reagan ever leave their mouth when talking about conservatism.
    Do you know what the DREAM ACT is Z? Go look it up. It's a horrible mess is what it is.

    I will note that not once have I ever said he isn't conservative, I've said his positions are not the right ones in areas that matter. Quit with the strawman please Z.
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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually I want a fiscal conservative, so I'll be voting for a fiscal conservative in the primary thank you very much. If you don't like the nomination, go vote third party just as I will if I'm not happy with the nominee.

    Sorry ptif, your decree of who is or isn't a liberal doesn't mean jack ****.
    You are the one claiming to be conservative but defending the liberal Huntsman and will not even accept Fox news. If Fox is wrong show me proof

    Romney and Huntsman on Illegal Aliens | Center for Immigration Studies

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Can't see the video, which may be why I couldn't find anything as I've been having to look at writing. What'd he say in the video?
    He says, "I support the DREAM act." Verbatim.
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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    A "couple of things"?
    These are BIG things Z, not little things. Notice, not once have I brought up his gay marriage stance.

    Cap and trade, that's huge. His "government run healthcare" stance, that's huge. His support for the DREAM ACT, that's huge. These aren't small issues Z.
    See my last post about the Dream Act. When someone can provide me with info that isn't echo chamber repeating from hyper partisan pundents then I'll believe it. Right now all I've got evidence of is him threatening to veto something that'd disallow instate tuition to children of illegals and that he'd like to secure the border first then figure out what to do with the ones in this country.

    I agree Cap and Trade is huge. I also believe him when he says he does not think we should be doing cap and trade in this kind of economy currently. I also don't disagree with environmental regulation to a certain extent, but do believe its gone overboard in many ways and that it needs to be done in a way that doesn't significantly damage business. That said, this guys got the track record in regards to business to make me think he's not going to pass anything that is going to substantially KILL business. For him to do so would be to go against everything he's done in the past as governor with regards to busines.

    As far as health care, I've not seen where he directly supports Obamacare. I have seen that he pushed for reform through negotiations and tax breaks for the private sector, which isn't a problem in my eyes. While he did support an individual mandate, as did the republicans at large back in the 90's anyways, he doesn't support it now and specifically in the way that its done in obamacare. Also, while people grasp onto various things he stated, the FACT of the matter is he supported and passed into law in Utah the very type of reform that Republicans were pushing for...Market-based consumer empowered reform rather than government. I'm not seeing this strong support for him for UHC, nor do I see any real evidence that he's going to push for it. I'm not worried about his views on Health Care, because his history and actions have shown that he will not veto but rather support the very type of reform that a republican congress would send him.

    RealClearPolitics - Huntsman Backs Away From Cap and Trade

    He was for it, then the economy tanked, now he's against it.. till the economy picks back up.
    He stated it didn't work, stated our economys not in a place with it, stated its not at a place to even begin looking at it again. I've got no issues with that. I have no issues with the generalized theory of looking at environmental impacts of things. I have a significant issue with how cap and trade is being pushed by the Obama administration, but I have no reason to believe that if he should ever get to trying to push it again that he'd do it in a similar way. Again, for me, i'm not going to condemn a very good candidate about something that MIGHT happen at some point in the future in a way that would go against his long history of being a jobs CREATOR not a jobs killer.

    I applaud his tax stance, and think he has the right on it there.
    BUT...

    Scoring Huntsman - Michael Tanner - National Review Online
    Yes, I'm sure the NRO is referencing the CATO report that lays that fact out about his spending per capita. What it fails to point out, as did ptif's biased agenda driven article earlier, is that despite that he was still ranked as the 5th best governor in the country on fiscal issues. They also look at him 1) in a bubble and 2) based only on population.

    His budget grew slightly more than Palin's and slightly less than Pawlenty's during their time as governor. Would you suggest that Pawlenty's got a spending issue and not trustworthy as a fiscal conservative?

    Additionally, budget is often looked at as a percent of GDP. Again, when compared to Palin and Pawlenty, Huntsman's budget as a percent of state GDP went down 2% over his tenure which was the same as Pawlenty, while Palin's went up 2%. Again, if we're not lambasting Pawlenty and Palin for their spending irresponsabilities, why are we doing it to Huntsman? Even more, Huntsman and Pawlenty both kept their government spending under 20% of GDP...Palin's was about 26%. Was he superb on spending? No, but he was pretty good all things considered and in relation to others in and around the field.

    I look at the man's actions and his stated intent. He signed up on Cap and Trade, then he says it's not the right time for it. Ergo, he's FOR Cap and Trade, just not right now.
    And yet you fail to look at his record with business, and the affects that his particular version of cap and trade had on business in his state, and base your decisions off that as well. You only want to look at the bad you view and wish to ignore the rest.

    He made some real tax changes, but was, a big spender.
    Less of a big spender than Pawlenty, and the "conservative" Palin, and all told fiscally was one of the top 5 governors in the country. He gave his state the largest tax cut ever and institituted a flat tax.

    He supports Government run healthcare,
    Again, where? Because the policies he actually ended up supporting, signing, and agreeing with was not government ran health care but rather market driven tax incentive led private sector focused reform.

    and I cannot back a candidate that does, nor do I support someone that backs the DREAM Act.
    Again, as I said before, if he supports the Dream act that's a problem...but just because Michelle Malcan says so doesn't make it true for me. The only statement I've seen for him is that we should secure the border first, then figure out what to do with those in this country. That was the conservative mantra throughout the past 5 years.

    Mr. V, I can respect why you wouldn't vote for the guy. I think you're coming at it from a far more reasonable stance, and while I still disagree with you that the guys a through and through "moderate" (I think he's a fiscal conservative with moderate social stances), you're at least not out and out calling him a liberal. My issue I guess is that if you're not going to come out and at least somewhat support someone in the running that you then at least be as equally nit picky at all of them rather than your seeming tacit ignoring of other individuals issues.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    He says, "I support the DREAM act." Verbatim.
    Well, alright then. That's definitely a problem. I'll have to watch the video at home. My apologizes to Mr. V.

    This is the first thing I do have an issue with him about, as I trust the republican congress less on immigration issues then I do in regards to the health care issue which was many of their bread and butter for getting elected. That said, as long as he held up to his statement he also made that we must "Secure our border" first, then he'd be even steven with me. The THEORY behind the DREAM Act isn't something I absolutely find offensive to conservatism, however its implimentation and specifically implimenting it prior to getting our borders cleaned up would be a mistake. If he supports it in principle, but wouldn't support it until such point that we secure out borders, that's not as big of an issue for me. If he'd support it, regardless of us securing the borders or not, that's a big negative for me.

    If anything, it now makes me neutral on his immigration views. I like his view point that we need to Secure our Border first and then we should look at all options on what to do with those in this country, but I dislike the notion of supporting the Dream Act. This is the first big strike against him for me as immigration is one of my larger issues.

    Again, my apologies to Mr. V. The DREAM act stuff was significantly different then the earlier "He supporst amnesty" stuff.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Do you know what the DREAM ACT is Z? Go look it up. It's a horrible mess is what it is.

    I will note that not once have I ever said he isn't conservative, I've said his positions are not the right ones in areas that matter. Quit with the strawman please Z.
    You haven't Mr V, and I acknowledge that in a post prior to seeing this one. I wasn't meaning it as a strawman towards you as I wasn't meaning it as you. However, there has been people directly calling this guy anywhere from a "moderate that leans left" to flat out "A liberal". Those are who I'm referencing there.

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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You haven't Mr V, and I acknowledge that in a post prior to seeing this one. I wasn't meaning it as a strawman towards you as I wasn't meaning it as you. However, there has been people directly calling this guy anywhere from a "moderate that leans left" to flat out "A liberal". Those are who I'm referencing there.
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    Re: Top Dem picks Huntsman

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You haven't Mr V, and I acknowledge that in a post prior to seeing this one. I wasn't meaning it as a strawman towards you as I wasn't meaning it as you. However, there has been people directly calling this guy anywhere from a "moderate that leans left" to flat out "A liberal". Those are who I'm referencing there.
    Sorry, got lost there (kids home, dogs barking, just woke up)
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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