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Supreme Court throws out huge discrimination suit against Wal-Mart

Maybe it is time to look at the ERA again?
 
toddwv said:
The current makeup of the court is dangerous.
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Of course it is. In far too many ways we are repeating the decade of the 1850's where the politicians brought us to national crisis and the Supreme Court greased the skids so that the process would be accelerated.
 
IMO, looking at statistics can be a poor way to determine discrimination. When I was working the Public Relations division was made up of all females. So was the administrative assistant positions throughout. In the hiring did they discriminate against a male? Or did they hire the best qualified for the position? I think they hired the best qualified.
I was asked about 30 years ago why we had no female fire management officers. My response was there was none qualified at the time that applied. We did have some female engine bosses. With more experience some of them would most likely make good fire management officers. It takes education and experience in to rise to the top.

IMO, the split SC decision is sound.
 
Gina said:
Yes, they can, but it shouldn't be, not with the statistics as they were noted by Justice Ginsberg. It's more than a store here and there. Women make up 70% of the hourly work force, but only 33% of management? Something doesn't add up here.
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Statistics can be misleading. There can be, and probably are, some very compelling reasons that the percetages are lopsided. In my experience, most of the front end workers (including front end managers) are rather uneducated women that I can't imagine any company promoting to higher management.
 
MrVicchio said:
Dangerous to progressive nanny statist maybe. Good for America fortunately.
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Only good for America if you enjoy the idea of our nation being under complete control of the "benevolent" multinat corporations.

Now who would be stupid enough to think that that is a "great idea"?
 
Those who suck at the breast of the multinational corporations or who are its toadies.
 
I'm siding on the court with this one. . .the lawsuit involved too many women - impossible to look at every single one individually to figur each situation out. You cannot assume they are all the same (of course - this isn't the reasoning of the court) There is no proof overall that each and ever women who was overlooked for a promotion was ever actually truly IDEAL or QUALIFIED for that promotion in contrast to whom it was actually given to.

There are huge differences between men/women when it comes to how they respond to these situations. There are countless situations - personal ones, ones I've seen firsthand without being directly involved, and things via tv, etc - that show this.

I've noticed that many women just *assume* that they deserved a raise, qualified more than anyone else for a promotion and so forth. And heavens forbid it *not* be given to them - their first and only thought is that "it's BECAUSE I'm a woman." When a man is overlooked for a promotion he'll just move along, usually, and find a company where he DOES fit in and IS appreciated for what he does offer - and generally - guys don't blame 'it's because I'm a man' on any turn-down they get.

This last semester I took a Business Communications course and one of the first things we learned about is that women, ingeneral, are horrible about being precise, quick and concise with their communication skills - men do posess these qualities -and those are the things that employers WANT . . . they don't want fluff, confusion and things that muddle up the memo . . .etc :shrug:

And you know what - most of the girls in the class were horribly offended.

Also - you'll find significantly less women in just about every company or organization and system the further up you go. . . look at our own government - no female president's yet :shrug:
 
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toddwv said:
Only good for America if you enjoy the idea of our nation being under complete control of the "benevolent" multinat corporations.
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It's not, this ruling or others like it that folks like you gnash your teeth over do not take us anywhere near that point. You've been told to hate success, fear prosperity and be jealous of those that do well. That's the real shame.

toddwv said:
Now who would be stupid enough to think that that is a "great idea"?
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If that were in anyway a reality you might have a point, however as all you are doing is regurgitating talking points from class warfare rhetoric you can be dismissed. You should put on a tin foil hat son.
 
buck said:
Statistics can be misleading. There can be, and probably are, some very compelling reasons that the percetages are lopsided. In my experience, most of the front end workers (including front end managers) are rather uneducated women that I can't imagine any company promoting to higher management.
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That might be an argument if Walmart didn't claim to offer Training and Development from within:
Opportunities for Everyone

We have a long history of promoting from within and advancing the careers of our dedicated associates. Nationally, nearly 70 percent of our store management started as hourly associates.
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Walmartstores.com: Associates

Field Leadership and Training Development

Training programs for field associates provide the technical, functional, management and leadership skills needed for success in all operating divisions. For instance, in the Walmart Stores division, their learning university works to develop trainings such as Assistant management training (AMT), focused on the leadership skills that drive future success.
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Walmartstores.com: Opportunity to Lead

Claiming and doing are two different matters though.

I realize statistics cannot be taken at face value, but those numbers stand out. Since Justice Ginsberg read the arguments on both side, it's of some importance that she mentioned the stats in her dissent.
 
MrVicchio said:
It's not, this ruling or others like it that folks like you gnash your teeth over do not take us anywhere near that point. You've been told to hate success, fear prosperity and be jealous of those that do well. That's the real shame.
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Apparently you have been lied to by whatever it is that you consider a source of "information" concerning what others think.

If that were in anyway a reality you might have a point, however as all you are doing is regurgitating talking points from class warfare rhetoric you can be dismissed. You should put on a tin foil hat son.
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You use the word "dismissed" alot. If you don't like that other people have opinions that don't play nice with your tainted worldview, then why not stick to websites that exist purely to support your limited and shortsighted viewpoint?
 
Gina said:
That might be an argument if Walmart didn't claim to offer Training and Development from within:


Walmartstores.com: Associates



Walmartstores.com: Opportunity to Lead

Claiming and doing are two different matters though.

I realize statistics cannot be taken at face value, but those numbers stand out. Since Justice Ginsberg read the arguments on both side, it's of some importance that she mentioned the stats in her dissent.
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I think you would have a great argument if everyone started out at the same level. No amount of management training can be expected to promote a HS drop out to the ranks of the executives.

The retail industry attracts a high proportion of under educated females . So, I don't necessarily see why you would expect to see a correlation between the number of females working the front-end jobs and the number of females in upper management.

To get a better picture, I would like to see statistics on the number of qualified men and women that apply for Walmart's management training programs and what the outcomes are of that program.
 
If we want the workforce to mirror the general population, then pro sports is in for big trouble.
 
MrVicchio said:
But how can you take money from evil rich people and properly redistribute the wealth without big class action lawsuits??

Think of the lawyers Maggie, they won't be able to buy those 4th homes and second yachts! You are sooo cruel.
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In a free market, all private businesses should be able to discriminate on any criteria and even on pay in the hiring process. In fact, many businesses already do discreetly.

Furthermore, in a free market, money should not be stolen from the public by something called the "government" and the re-distributed--as welfare--to specific private businesses.

Regrettably. . .

Report says Wal-Mart received $1B in government subsidies. - May. 24, 2004

Quelle surprise :rolleyes:
 
Until women (not all - generalized statement, here) actually look past their own gender in regard to workplace advancement and figure out their actual faults or undesired qualities AND THEN decide whether they need ot change or not - we (as a generalized group of women) will never see a massive change in the makeup of the workforce.

I remember actually trying to get into the police force and *every single person* I spoke to about it (friends - coworkers, etc) would say things like "it should be easier for you to get in becaues you're a female . . ."

Gesus - maybe I don't want my gender to be a determining factor. How ****ed up would it be if they were talking to a black guy and said "well, you have affirmative actions going for you, it hsould be easier for you to get into the college you want"

Krickey.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
And you know what - most of the girls in the class were horribly offended.
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Gee, I don't know why. And personally, I am surprised you can find your way to your computer each and every day, much less form coherent and complete sentences. Well done, indeed.
 
The essence of the problem here is that Wal-Mart is not truly a private corporation; it's also a publicly funded entity, w/all the subsidies it receives.

So what the SCOTUS said is that the public should be forced to fund discrimination.
 
BDBoop said:
Gee, I don't know why. And personally, I am surprised you can find your way to your computer each and every day, much less form coherent and complete sentences. Well done, indeed.
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LOL - fine example of what I was referring to.

There was an entire chapter dedicated to how gender issues can affect - negatively - your potential for doing well in the workforce.

An example:
Women tend to highlight and punctuate casual conversation sentences with laughter or giggles more than men. To many managers (etc) that were interviewed on this subject - this was ANNOYING and to the point of being a serious distraction and would actually discredit the employee and encourage one to take that person LESS seriously.

:shrug:

Is it necessary to punctuate your sentences with a small giggle?
Why do women do this?
Are we born with this innate obnoxious habit?

It is actually learned over the years - and believe it or not - is not sexist to say "knock it off, stop it" - But yet many people feel as if they're being picked on and offended by the mere suggestion to stop laughing spontaneously at innapropriate times.

IF people took the time to learn more about the workforce preferences that they have to contend with - get to know theirselves and the qualities that they have which might be a problem - then maybe they'd have better success. Many women HAVE done this and HAVE succeed very well.
 
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Gina said:
I'm disappointed, because this (quote below) points to the very real possibility of systematic discrimination.
I'm also not surprised Scalia wrote the deciding opinion.
Scalia: Women Don't Have Constitutional Protection Against Discrimination
His opinion in this case, ignores the statistics I quoted in Ginsberg's dissent. The numbers are very compelling.
It was disappointing that even if the suit had gone forward, the court agreed unanimously that they couldn't seek monetary damages, but it still would have been worth it to end inequities in Walmart's employment policies.
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I thought the claims of this case were weak from the get-go. WalMart's hourly employee staff make-up would and should have nothing to do with their senior management make-up. WalMart offers hourly jobs...unskilled labor, able to be filled by pretty much anyone. Management positions are filled not from hourly employee ranks but from qualified candidates, most likely with a graduate level business management background. Truly an apples/oranges comparison. National averages rank anywhere from 11-16% of women senior management positions. If WalMart is bangin in at 33% they are breaking the trends.

UC Davis: Spotlight: Where are the women?
 
buck said:
I think you would have a great argument if everyone started out at the same level. No amount of management training can be expected to promote a HS drop out to the ranks of the executives.

The retail industry attracts a high proportion of under educated females . So, I don't necessarily see why you would expect to see a correlation between the number of females working the front-end jobs and the number of females in upper management.

To get a better picture, I would like to see statistics on the number of qualified men and women that apply for Walmart's management training programs and what the outcomes are of that program.
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The stat was related to management, not executives, which I would have then agreed with. I agree, the retail industry employs a very high proportion of under educated females, even given that, the disparity is enormous.

Justice Ginsberg reviewed the arguments of both sides and I think it is telling that she included those percentages in her dissent. She brought it to bear in her opinion, so she must have thought there was something to it.
 
Gina said:
The stat was related to management, not executives, which I would have then agreed with. I agree, the retail industry employs a very high proportion of under educated females, even given that, the disparity is enormous.

Justice Ginsberg reviewed the arguments of both sides and I think it is telling that she included those percentages in her dissent. She brought it to bear in her opinion, so she must have thought there was something to it.
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I would truly hope that individuals who have more than a highschool diploma set their sights higher than working in a retail setup struggling to climb up through the promotion chain and out of the minimum wage pool.
 
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