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Thread: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    Analysis: Ethanol grown up, will withstand subsidy loss | Reuters
    Farmers worried about ethanol subsidy cuts - CBS News

    Well most conservatives would see this as a major victory, but as a conservative corn producing farmer this one may end up hurting us. Although corn has been skyrocketing and E-85 has been a let down in terms of success, it leaves a bittersweet taste, although the article talks of a possible compromise which would be suitable.

    Thoughts?
    Food or fuel, take your pick. But all subsidies like this should end.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Any business that can operate with a profit should NOT be getting a subsidy. Any business that CANNOT operate with a profit is not viable and should NOT be getting a subsidy. Pretty basic stuff.
    For the most part I agree with that. However, I can support the government encouraging research into some speculative developments that could end up of great benefit to the country. Especially in times like these when
    venture capital is tight. Or it would appear to be tight.

    At one time, farmers needed encouragement to grow corn for ethanol to our benefit. That time has long since past though and the subsidies should have been eliminated long ago.

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    For the most part I agree with that. However, I can support the government encouraging research into some speculative developments that could end up of great benefit to the country. Especially in times like these when
    venture capital is tight. Or it would appear to be tight.

    At one time, farmers needed encouragement to grow corn for ethanol to our benefit. That time has long since past though and the subsidies should have been eliminated long ago.
    I can see the venture capital idea. the problem with that is I have worked with several gov contractors that get that venture capital and sell 'ideas.' They usually have 5-7 years to produce some sort of result and at the end of that time period what they demonstrate is either viable or trashed and off to the next venture. they make gazillions off theory. Needs to be some way to scale it back and get better results.

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Food or fuel, take your pick. But all subsidies like this should end.
    If you're talking from profitablilty standpoint fuel without a doubt.
    "It is a sad day in society when people adjust the facts to fit their beliefs, rather than adjust their beliefs to fit the facts."
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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by DontDoIt View Post
    If you're talking from profitablilty standpoint fuel without a doubt.
    They're free to pursue that venue without a single dime from the tax payers.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I can see the venture capital idea. the problem with that is I have worked with several gov contractors that get that venture capital and sell 'ideas.' They usually have 5-7 years to produce some sort of result and at the end of that time period what they demonstrate is either viable or trashed and off to the next venture. they make gazillions off theory. Needs to be some way to scale it back and get better results.
    Oh yes. There certainly is more than enough room to make changes n order to obtain better results. We've all heard stories of abuse. Better peer review of grant/subsidy proposals when they are initiated?

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by Gina View Post
    Oh yes. There certainly is more than enough room to make changes n order to obtain better results. We've all heard stories of abuse. Better peer review of grant/subsidy proposals when they are initiated?
    GAg! Not 'peer' reviewed!!! Id rather see a panel of consumers and taxpayers that are more than willing to throw the bull**** flag when needed than a bunch of like-minded biased 'peers.' Those peers eventually want something in return.

    Sorry...Ive worked with too many university based research programs to have much faith in...welll...university based research programs.

    (and I AGREE with your post...just not the peer reviewed part)

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Variable dial pumps---the guy at the pump decides how much ethanol he wants and how it impacts his cost at the pump. Let the consumer decide, I suspect we will see local support for ethanol in farming communities and not so much in the metros. It will create an additional cost onto local stations as they will need holding tanks for just ethanol as well as new pumps to support the mixing, but...gas stations are some giant revenue streams, let me tell ya.

    Objective Voice, thanks for the disinformation, Ethanol gets the same tax breaks Oil gets and gets money directly from the government on top of that. Every company gets tax write offs for R&D and Capital Amortization, not just oil.
    Ethanol is not a viable replacement in any way, shape, or form.

    1) You have to plant the corn. Get on your tractor and use oil based fuel.

    2) You have to harvest the corn. Get on your tractor and use oil based fuel.

    3) You have to take the corn to the distillery. Get some trucks and use oil based fuel.

    4) You have take the ethanol from the distillery to the refinery. Get some tanker trucks and use oil based fuel.

    5) And, of course, you have to transport gasoline with ethanal in it to market. More tanker trucks, which use oil based fuel.

    In the end, producing ethanol uses more energy than it produces. Add to that the cost of the corn, paying employees to transport corn and ethanol, fertilizer, and other items, ethanol is a total waste of time and money. But total waste of time and money is something you would expect from our idiots in Washington. Producing more fuel efficient vehicles, going green, the Pickens Plan, solar, conservation, and other realistic programs, will end up weaning us off Middle Eastern oil, whereas ethanol only benefits corporate farms, along with the politicians who recieve the campaign donations (bribes) to keep this idiotic program going.
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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    GAg! Not 'peer' reviewed!!! Id rather see a panel of consumers and taxpayers that are more than willing to throw the bull**** flag when needed than a bunch of like-minded biased 'peers.' Those peers eventually want something in return.

    Sorry...Ive worked with too many university based research programs to have much faith in...welll...university based research programs.

    (and I AGREE with your post...just not the peer reviewed part)
    I see your point. Consumers and taxpayers would be skeptical enough to ask hard questions. I would still want one peer, so that a smooth talking researcher/corporate guy, couldn't pull the wool over their eyes with promises that have no scientific or practical basis.

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    Re: Ethanol Subsidies May Be Coming To An End

    what about the rest of em?
    Hayek - too liberal for republicans

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