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Tennessee Trumps Wiconsin: Kills Teacher Collective Bargaining. Dead.

This is FANTASTIC!!! Its like Christmas in June! Now if only Illinois can see that this is needed. Teachers and school districts need to have their pay cut in half.
 
The Giant Noodle said:
This is FANTASTIC!!! Its like Christmas in June! Now if only Illinois can see that this is needed. Teachers and school districts need to have their pay cut in half.
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really? i suppose it's great to be able to make up $hit as you go along.
any proof? any evidence that teachers in tennessee will now receive a cut in pay?
 
lewstherin said:
really? i suppose it's great to be able to make up $hit as you go along.
any proof? any evidence that teachers in tennessee will now receive a cut in pay?
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Are you drunk? What are you talking about? I didnt say **** about teachers in TN. I said........ This is FANTASTIC!!! Its like Christmas in June! Now if only Illinois can see that this is needed. Teachers and school districts need to have their pay cut in half.
 
zimmer said:
Hooray!
Step by step, state by state... The ball of sobriety is rolling.
Along the way we need to eliminate the DoE.

.
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Awesome! In 2001, Tennessee had one of the worst high school graduation rates in the country. They made changes and the graduation rate shot up to nearly 75%, which beats the national average.

I'm glad to see that they are addressing the problem of improved graduation rates and seeking to sink to the bottom that they were scraping a bit over a decade ago.

Let me guess... Republicans are in charge and they are trying to funnel more money into charter schools. C'mon, tell me I'm wrong.
 
and the war on the working class contiues ....
 
Mayor Snorkum said:
The definition of reasonable wages and benefits is defined by the free market with free competition.
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there it is listeners ... a blast from the past.... a mouldie oldie .....
 
:shrug: he's right. Unions artificially jack up the price of labor, which decreases efficiency and demand. haven't you kind of sort of noticed how unions in the private sector have been shrinking along with the enterprises they have attached themselves to?
 
The Giant Noodle said:
This is FANTASTIC!!! Its like Christmas in June! Now if only Illinois can see that this is needed. Teachers and school districts need to have their pay cut in half.
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Do you not understand that most teachers are paid like crap? Its not teacher's pay thats the problem, its administrative overhead. However, as CPwill stated Unions have done work to overrate their worth. This does not mean that unions when they were created weren't needed or aren't needed as a buttress to corporate greed.

What we've seen over the last 20-30years is that profit sharing does not exist outside the top and it has, like a poison, weakened our economic ecosystem.
 
xpiher said:
Do you not understand that most teachers are paid like crap? Its not teacher's pay thats the problem, its administrative overhead. However, as CPwill stated Unions have done work to overrate their worth. This does not mean that unions when they were created weren't needed or aren't needed as a buttress to corporate greed.

What we've seen over the last 20-30years is that profit sharing does not exist outside the top and it has, like a poison, weakened our economic ecosystem.
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do not confuse "pay" with "compensation" - teachers benefits packages are much more lucrative than most private sector ones. Though I agree on the administrative overhead being a hefty cost as well - the problem is that Teachers Unions protect those too, because they have members in administration just as they have members teaching.
 
cpwill said:
good to see this passed. hopefully tennessee see's much benefit from it.
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Now all they need to do is pass legislation similar to Alabama's regarding assisting illegal aliens. They will be Golden! All the illegals will head to Chicago or LA.
 
Ikari said:
So....it's the government's job then to "teach" our kids discipline?
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Next important big step. Get the government completely out of the business of education. It is extra-constitutional. It is dangerous.
 
toddwv said:
Let me guess... Republicans are in charge and they are trying to funnel more money into charter schools. C'mon, tell me I'm wrong.
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One can only hope. Privatizing education would be even better.
 
haymarket said:
and the war on the working class contiues ....
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How many in the "working class" love the public school system? How many would love the opportunity to send their children to something other than a government school run by government hacks who are part of a public sector union?
 
Misterveritis said:
One can only hope. Privatizing education would be even better.
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Exactly what we need. That way we can be just like Pakistan, where the rich elite get education, and the poor are shut out of it all and remain stupid!

We can only hope!
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Exactly what we need. That way we can be just like Pakistan, where the rich elite get education, and the poor are shut out of it all and remain stupid!

We can only hope!
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Another comparison to Pakistan. Disappointed.

The poor would not be shut out in a private system. That is just a theory that liberals like to say.
 
Schools will never improve until parents get involved and demand that it take place. Teaching has become a refuge for people who seem to be lazy and once they are in the job performance goes out the window because Unions use threats and intimidation to get their was and protect crappy teachers.

All teaching contracts need to be based on performance and that means testing the children and having meaningful standards for thew kids and the teachers.

Children who do not pass the tests need to be held back and this BS about not making the little kid feel bad needs to stop, it's nonsense.

Good for Tennessee.
 
Goshin said:
Ya know what? We could do twice as well with half the money. All it takes it two things; cut out all the damn bureaucratic overhead and restore discipline to the schools.

By restore discipline I mean put the teachers and the Principal back in charge of the students. Restore the authority of teachers to beat that ass as necessary. The ones who are past caring, past fixing and won't stop disrupting other's ability to learn... permanent expulsion and that without delay.

You can't teach without order, without the teacher being in control of the classroom.

Once upon a time we had a reasonable degree of order in school. We can do it again. It doesn't take money, just a little hard-headed common sense.
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Discipline is needed that is true. If a teacher ever laid a hand on my child it would be the last thing they would do before they paid me a huge settlement in court. It may even be the last time they set foot in a classroom. I would have attorney's on that teacher like the hounds of hell.
 
katiegrrl0 said:
Discipline is needed that is true. If a teacher ever laid a hand on my child it would be the last thing they would do before they paid me a huge settlement in court. It may even be the last time they set foot in a classroom. I would have attorney's on that teacher like the hounds of hell.
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Fine. Don't like it, send your kid to a private school where it isn't done.

Public schools need a return to real discipline. If too many parents are not instilling their kids with a reasonable respect for authority and order, to the point that teachers can't teach half the time, then maybe the schools need to do it. After all, we have sex-ed in school because parents were not doing it right, yes? ;)

Now oddly enough, corporeal punishment and expulsion for hard-cases was typical of most schools up until the 1960's. It continued in some into the 1980's.

What has happened to academics since then? What has happened with crime in school since then?
 
Sgt Meowenstein said:
Didn't they also tell teachers that they can't talk about homosexuals? Sounds like they're aiming for a system where teachers earn minimum wage and don't stray from the views of the extreme right-wing.
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Eats you up, doesn't it? Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
 
FilmFestGuy said:
Exactly what we need. That way we can be just like Pakistan, where the rich elite get education, and the poor are shut out of it all and remain stupid!
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Why, in your opinion, would that occur?

Are shoes made only for the rich? Are clothes made only for the rich? Is food made only for the rich? Are cell phones made only for the rich? Are TV sets made only for the rich? Are automobiles made only for the rich?

Or can one find a variety of goods, and services to meet each individual's needs and income? Please explain to me why you think education would be any different than all of the other goods and services that are provided in an astonishing range of prices and features?
 
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Goshin said:
Fine. Don't like it, send your kid to a private school where it isn't done.

Public schools need a return to real discipline. If too many parents are not instilling their kids with a reasonable respect for authority and order, to the point that teachers can't teach half the time, then maybe the schools need to do it. After all, we have sex-ed in school because parents were not doing it right, yes? ;)

Now oddly enough, corporeal punishment and expulsion for hard-cases was typical of most schools up until the 1960's. It continued in some into the 1980's.

What has happened to academics since then? What has happened with crime in school since then?
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I did state the fact that discipline is needed. Discipline begins at home. The lack of respect for anyone or anything today is indicative of a society that has a serious problem. There is no discipline in many homes. It has nothing to do with corporal punishment though. It is teaching decorum.
The lack of common sense and a place for certain behavior.
It starts with small things. When I grew up not a horribly long time ago children called elders Mr., Ms., or Mrs. Now that has gone by the wayside. A younger person would offer a seat to an older person. i.e on a bus. I would stand to give an older person a seat of the bus. That rarely happens these days. Society is now based on self and selfish needs. Respect is gone and that is learned. It is not taught by beating a child. It is taught by parents that know how to act. It is taught by parents that show respect.
You can see that displayed on this or any forum. People may not like Bush or Obama but the language used in stating that is disrespectful. If a parent calls Obama an idiot how is a young person to learn respect for anything. Yes discipline is needed and it is learned at home. It is not taught by a teacher hitting a child.
 
and your solution for the kids who don't get discipline at home is...... let them continue to disrupt the learning of other students? continue to allow them to create dangerous situations for other students?
 
Goshin said:
Ya know what? We could do twice as well with half the money. All it takes it two things; cut out all the damn bureaucratic overhead and restore discipline to the schools.

By restore discipline I mean put the teachers and the Principal back in charge of the students. Restore the authority of teachers to beat that ass as necessary. The ones who are past caring, past fixing and won't stop disrupting other's ability to learn... permanent expulsion and that without delay.

You can't teach without order, without the teacher being in control of the classroom.

Once upon a time we had a reasonable degree of order in school. We can do it again. It doesn't take money, just a little hard-headed common sense.
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You look back to the one room school house and how well educated those kids were. I wish I could find a test from around the turn of the century for an 8th grade class. My bet is most grads today couldn't pass it. The reason is precisely as described above.

No teachers unions then, no opulent school, no BS classes... just a room full of kids from multiple classes, a teacher that had control and expected results, and a three-holer out back. And if the kid was being a jerk, the parents most likely would have swatted him one, allowed the teacher to too and told him to knock it off.

Here is a test for 8th grade grads in 1895:
http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2008/04/then_and_now.html
and for transparency: http://www.snopes.com/language/document/1895exam.asp

... and then we have this today:
Case Western Reserve's Ted Gup, in the April 11, 2008 issue of the Chronicle of Higher Education, writes about how little his students know:

"Nearly half of a recent class could not name a single country that bordered Israel.

In an introductory journalism class, 11 of 18 students could not name what country Kabul was in, although we have been at war there for half a decade.

Last fall only one in 21 students could name the U.S. secretary of defense.

Given a list of four countries - China, Cuba, India, and Japan - not one of those same 21 students could identify India and Japan as democracies.

Their grasp of history was little better. The question of when the Civil War was fought invited an array of responses - half a dozen were off by a decade or more.

Some students thought that Islam was the principal religion of South America, that Roe v. Wade was about slavery, that 50 justices sit on the U.S. Supreme Court, that the atom bomb was dropped on Hiroshima in 1975."

http://www.mindingthecampus.com/forum/2008/04/then_and_now.html
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Funny if it weren't so sad.

.
 
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