Palin dismisses Geithner warnings about debt ceiling

Misterveritis said:

I am for it.
So we could return to the US Constitution with its enumerated powers. Anything not enumerated has to go. Let's do them one at a time. Each quarter let's eliminate the extra-constitutional departments, repeal their rules and regulations, fire their employees, and sell the buildings.

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So you would get rid of the EPA, one of the few things the government should actually be doing?

xpiher said:

So you would get rid of the EPA, one of the few things the government should actually be doing?

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Why should they be doing it?

Henrin said:

Why should they be doing it?

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it is costly for business to NOT pollute
there is no reason to believe industry would incur the additional expense to be good stewards of our shared environment if they were not compelled by the government to do so

justabubba said:

it is costly for business to NOT pollute
there is no reason to believe industry would incur the additional expense to be good stewards of our shared environment if they were not compelled by the government to do so

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Not good enough. Why does "government" need to dictate to business how to be safe? Why does "government" need to put up the punishments for not being safe?

xpiher said:

So you would get rid of the EPA, one of the few things the government should actually be doing?

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Which enumerated power grants the US government the right to do all of the damage to the US economy the EPA is doing?

Here is the list:


The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;

To borrow money on the credit of the United States;

To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

To establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization, and uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout the United States;

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;

To establish Post Offices and Post Roads;

To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;

To constitute Tribunals inferior to the supreme Court;

To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations;

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water;

To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;

To provide and maintain a Navy;

To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;

To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings; And

To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.

justabubba said:

it is costly for business to NOT pollute
there is no reason to believe industry would incur the additional expense to be good stewards of our shared environment if they were not compelled by the government to do so

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This isn't a justification for a FEDERAL agency.

Henrin said:

Why should they be doing it?

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3rd non-participating party costs/victimization/disputes. When one or more states enters into an agreement about pollution, there will be other states that are affected. Even if other states are not affected, ensuring that a pollution agreement between states puts those agreements in the federal domain. Furthermore, the pollution agreement between one state and its citizens almost always necessitates cost to neighboring state again, in the federal domain. Even if you do not think the EPA should be writing policy, the agency would need to exist in order to ensure that the courts (federal) are properly informed when coming to a decision.

What necessitated the existence of the EPA is not only the above reasons, but also the fact that the Supreme Court issued a rulings in the 1900s that amounted to "pollution is the price of progress deal with it." Had these ruling not be made, polluters would have been legally accountable to those they harmed and would have had to find ways to not pollute. (source: The Revolution by Ron Paul)

xpiher said:

The economic problems we are facing today started, in earnest (procurers existed before), in the mid 90s. Study some more economics please.

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So then it is Clinton's fault?

xpiher said:

So you would get rid of the EPA, one of the few things the government should actually be doing?

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You mean like this which will put even more a financial burden on the poor and unemployed?

Utility giant AEP says it will close five coal plants to comply with EPA regs - The Hill's E2-Wire

justabubba said:

it is costly for business to NOT pollute
there is no reason to believe industry would incur the additional expense to be good stewards of our shared environment if they were not compelled by the government to do so

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It is the consumers it hurts not the Business

Especially the poor and unemployed and the middle class Obama said he would not tax. This is worse than a tax