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Thread: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

  1. #51
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    The liberal mentality:

    • Changes to welfare, healthcare? NO! We have an obligation! These people can't help themselves!
    • Staying in Iraq? Nah. If those people can't help themselves, then **** 'em.
    There's a couple of explanations for this.

    1) Some liberals simply view problems at home as more significant problems abroad. Help ourselves first, before we help others, ya know?

    2) I used to consider myself a Wilsonian liberal in terms of foreign intervention - but I supported interventions in places like Rwanda, Darfur, etc., like places that actually need help. Iraq doesn't fit on that list, and that's why a lot of liberals were against the invasion in the first place.

    So on the surface it might seem hypocritical and inconsistent, but there's logic behind it.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 06-02-11 at 04:54 PM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #52
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So wait, we did something that HELPS the entire world economy and prevents price fixing?
    By ignoring another country's property rights to do with their property as they see fit. You probably wouldn't be opposed then to another country invading us for regime change then so they could better control our resources than would you?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  3. #53
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    By ignoring another country's property rights to do with their property as they see fit. You probably wouldn't be opposed then to another country invading us for regime change then so they could better control our resources than would you?
    So you're telling me that nobody in Iraq at any point in time authorized us to do what we did with the oil? Even retroactively?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  4. #54
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    my only concern is that I don't want to have to go back over there AGAIN in another 10 years to start the same damn process over.
    That's the great thing. We don't have to. We can learn from our mistakes and understand that this sort of interventionism only makes us poorer.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    No, I mean the potential for Islamic terrorist elements that could potentially thrive on the potential political and social instability of a post-American occupation Iraq.
    YOu mean get it back to where it was before our invasion and regime change? Unfortunately, freedom has to be fought for by the people themselves. I say let the Iraqi people decide on their own how they wish their country to be governed. Picking sides in a civil war is not something we can continue to afford to support.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    So you're telling me that nobody in Iraq at any point in time authorized us to do what we did with the oil? Even retroactively?
    Yes, the new corrupt regime we helped set up certainly did, that was the whole purpose of our invasion and regime change, and why we still protect them from their own people 8 years later.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, the new corrupt regime we helped set up certainly did, that was the whole purpose of our invasion and regime change, and why we still protect them from their own people 8 years later.
    Right. Not buying it. If you'd like to provide links or credible sourcing I'd be interested in reading it. All I come up with are bloggers and conspiracies.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


  8. #58
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    I'm just surprised that it took so long for the "It's all about the Oil" mantra to pop up
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

    An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last.

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    I'm just surprised that it took so long for the "It's all about the Oil" mantra to pop up
    Me too, its always been about the oil, as the lack of any threat to the US whatsoever clearly documented.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Me too, its always been about the oil, as the lack of any threat to the US whatsoever clearly documented.
    I think the decision to go into Iraq had a lot more to do with incompetence and less to do with oil, but that's just me
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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