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Thread: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

  1. #31
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well, we know the potential for imploding and falling back into a sectarian civil war is very real. I'm not sure how much such a scenario would directly impact US national security, but it's something to think about.
    That is a likelihood whenever we leave. The only question is how long can we afford to stay. I've heard some talk of an unbearable national debt.
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If we can pay to repair and rebuild and strengthen Germany after they started a war in which they got properly creamed, I see no justification for not making Iraq as safe as possible before we leave the land that we invaded.
    It's not really an analogous situation.

    Some thing's are just really hard to do. Building a nation that is based on a tribal culture, and is split among sectarian and ethnic lines, is kinda difficult.

    Honestly though I agree, the whole situation is kind of like a "pick your poison" scenario.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    After almost a decade in a mistaken war that is bankrupting our country, it is not cutting and running to say we can't continue to be the world's policeman.
    The war is not the sole or primary source of "bankrupting" entitlements make up 33+% of the budget.
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    That is a likelihood whenever we leave. The only question is how long can we afford to stay. I've heard some talk of an unbearable national debt.
    At this point it's not the Iraq War that's driving the debt, although I agree we should save wherever we can.

    The issue is, what would be the potential cost of cutting our losses and leaving right now, with respect to national security, which is a cost that can't always be quantified in financial terms?

    Basically none of the options at this point is very attractive. It's either bad, or worse - the key is to figure out which one is bad and which one is worse.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  5. #35
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If we can pay to repair and rebuild and strengthen Germany after they started a war in which they got properly creamed, I see no justification for not making Iraq as safe as possible before we leave the land that we invaded.
    Yes, the difference being Iraq didn't invade other countries, we invaded them. If the new corrupt regime we helped set up their can't stand against its own people after 8 years, it wasn't meant to be.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    At this point it's not the Iraq War that's driving the debt, although I agree we should save wherever we can.

    The issue is, what would be the potential cost of cutting our losses and leaving right now, with respect to national security, which is a cost that can't always be quantified in financial terms?

    Basically none of the options at this point is very attractive. It's either bad, or worse - the key is to figure out which one is bad and which one is worse.
    Stop saying things better than I am.
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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    The liberal mentality:

    • Changes to welfare, healthcare? NO! We have an obligation! These people can't help themselves!
    • Staying in Iraq? Nah. If those people can't help themselves, then **** 'em.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yes, the difference being Iraq didn't invade other countries, we invaded them. If the new corrupt regime we helped set up their can't stand against its own people after 8 years, it wasn't meant to be.
    Right, we invaded them. If anything, we have a larger obligation to them than we did to Germany.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    At this point it's not the Iraq War that's driving the debt, although I agree we should save wherever we can.

    The issue is, what would be the potential cost of cutting our losses and leaving right now, with respect to national security, which is a cost that can't always be quantified in financial terms?

    Basically none of the options at this point is very attractive. It's either bad, or worse - the key is to figure out which one is bad and which one is worse.

    The Iraq war still cost us way more than the funding for NPR and Planned Parenthood that just had to be cut due to our budget woes. By national security do you mean the oil resource in Iraq that we invaded them to control?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Iraqis wary of decision on U.S. troops

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The Iraq war still cost us way more than the funding for NPR and Planned Parenthood that just had to be cut due to our budget woes. By national security do you mean the oil resource in Iraq that we invaded them to control?
    Except we don't. And the largest benefactors of Iraqi oil restructuring and modernizing were/are India and China. Doesn't benefit us at all for China to have access to cheaper methods of producing energy.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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