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Thread: The results are in on social security

  1. #261
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Most working people have seen their wages go in reverse during the great bush recession,they donít have a snowballs chance in hell of reaching the cap anyway. Those who do reach the cap can easily afford to cough up the dough because they are the only ones that have seen an increase in wages.
    nice switch.

    1. those who reach the cap pay higher shares of taxes already - and currently spend some time and effort minimizing their exposure to it. hike their nominal rates, and you will only see an increase in resources poured into avoidance.

    2. it still doesn't fix the massive gaping holes in social security.

    3. which, to be fair. will never be a problem if we don't fix Medicare - because the government will have collapsed.

    As a proud dues paying member of "the AARP", I would appreciate it if you would be so kind as to show me where they said ďthat there is no way to tax our way to paying for Social Security ď.
    it was part of them admitting that future expenditures would have to be reduced. however, feel free to take a look at the unfunded liabilities that the trustees mention in their annual report, and make sure you read it in the context of Medicares. apparently the White House is gearing up to make an alteration in the COLA adjustment part of that. which I think is unfortunate because it misses an opportunity to make Social Security a better deal for our low-income workers, and as I understand it still leaves it long-term unsustainable... but depending on how it's done it could kick the can a good ways down the road.

    They used the money and left a pile of IOU.s .A friggen deb,t is a debt, be it to China, Saudi Arabia,Japan....
    this is incorrect. we are constitutionally obligated to pay our debt instruments to china, japan, bondholders so on and so forth. internal obligations we are not. it's like "borrowing" from your savings account. try telling a judge that you have to pay back your money market before you pay your mortgage lender.

    In this case the promise was made.In some cases a half century ago; now your OK with wanting to to renege on A promise to our seniors(who paid the into SS their whole working lives ).
    this is incorrect. my idea on fixing social security involved an entirely optional switch to a privatized account. you can read about it here. In addition, we may need to slowly increase the retirement age to 67, and link benefits in the old formula to inflation rather than CPI. Republicans are trying to seek a way to reform the entitlements so as to reduce the effect on current or soon-to-be seniors. That was the point of Ryan's Medicare proposal, which pushes the switch out 10 years. as opposed to the President's Medicare plan, which starts cutting benefits for current seniors in 2014.

    Your ok with paying debts that we borrowed as long as we donít to increase the tax load of the people that have seen their wages ACTUALLY INCREASE during the recession.
    their share of taxes has gone up during the last few years as it is. the undertaxed class at current isn't the wealthy, it's the middle class. I don't like that, because I am middle class, and don't want to see my taxes go up. I would rather we grow the economy; which would have the happy effects of not just increasing revenue, but employment, wages, and standards of living.

    Gotta keep them subsides for them oil companies rolling in, otherwise they wont be able to claim the title of the most profitable CORPS. On this little speck of dust in the cosmos that we call planet earth.
    the Republican Budget which passed the House and died in the Senate actually repealed the subsidies, loopholes, and credits to which you are referring. just without raising effective tax rates. that's what the fight is over - not whether we should keep the loopholes and subsidies, but whether we should raise effective tax rates.

    Actually, I think that if they would lower the that would entice more of us geezers to retire earlier and make many more good paying jobs available for younger folk.
    doesn't work like that, sadly. production begats production. believe it or not, more 63 year olds in the workforce is a good thing for the economy

  2. #262
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    incoherent rant:

    barack the slasher's fiscal fallback for 2 full years, his bowles-simpson debt commission, which he forgot, recommends for fix all FOUR social security reforms---retirement age AND means test AND bennies cut AND payroll increase

    Fiscal Commission Co-Chairs Simpson And Bowles Release Eye-Popping Recommendations | TPMDC

    a social program, especially one of such epic scale, which can't keep its basic promises renewed across generations is a FAILURE

    in other words, ask the slasher why HE wants to CUT

    Obama Seeks Social Security Cut In Debt Talks - Milwaukee News Story - WISN Milwaukee

    lockbox, anyone?

  3. #263
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote cpwill

    1. those who reach the cap pay higher shares of taxes already - and currently spend some time and effort minimizing their exposure to it. hike their nominal rates, and you will only see an increase in resources poured into avoidance.
    someone making $106 k , pay SS on all of the $106 k, someone making $212 k pay SS on… yep, $106 k, the other half years pay is free of SS payroll tax.Warren Buffet, Bill Gates pay on the first $106 k.


    2. it still doesn't fix the massive gaping holes in social security.

    There is no gaping whole, just pay what was promised and what the people paid in for all their working lives.Taking the cap off is all that is required.


    it was part of them admitting that future expenditures would have to be reduced.

    Keep clinging to what lands in your inbox if you want, but this was in my INBOX today from Barry Rand CEO of AARP.


    (“AARP will not accept any cuts to Social Security as part of a deal to pay the nation’s bills,” said Rand. “Social Security did not cause the deficit, and it should not be cut to reduce a deficit it did not cause. As the President and Congress work to negotiate a deal to raise the debt ceiling, AARP urges all lawmakers to reject any proposals that would cut the benefits seniors have earned through a lifetime of hard work.)


    however, feel free to take a look at the unfunded liabilities that the trustees mention in their annual report, and make sure you read it in the context of Medicare’s.

    If you want to discuss Medicare start a thread on it.

    As for SS, it’s fully funded by the payroll tax that workers and their employers pay equally into and has been since its inception.


    t
    his is incorrect. we are constitutionally obligated to pay our debt instruments to china, japan, bondholders so on and so forth. internal obligations we are not.
    This I gotta see.

    Show me where we don’t have to pay the holders of, what Social Security invests its surpluses in, U.S Treasury bonds.
    Last edited by Donc; 07-09-11 at 12:35 AM.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  4. #264
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    social security was sold for generations as insurance and NOT a welfare program

    just another fundamental promise certain to go unfulfilled

    The minority of seniors who are wealthy also contributed to these programs throughout their working lives, pay higher taxes in retirement to support them — and get proportionately less back in return. Premiums for Medicare Part B already are pegged to income as well.

    A means test for their earned benefits would erode the popular support that has sustained these programs and made them so effective in helping older households. Making Social Security more like welfare would surely lead to weaker benefits — and a growing burden on young people to support struggling elders.
    Social Security, Medicare Are Not Welfare - Benefits - Programs - AARP

    why can't the promises be kept, retirement age, benefits, contributions...

    ALL to change, ALL to the members' detriment

    surprise

  5. #265
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    social security ALONE in the year two thousand ten ALONE added an ADDITIONAL and EXTRA unfunded obligation of ONE POINT FOUR TRILLION dollars to united states actuarials
    You can't cut taxes for the rich for 30 years without consequences. Never fear though, its nothing that 30 years of increased taxes on the rich can't fix!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

  6. #266
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    so SOCIAL SECURITY's unfunded obligation grew by one point four tril in 2010 alone cuzza INCOME TAX cuts for the rich?

    LOL!

    YouTube - Twilight Zone intro

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Kinda looks like prof goggle now has an apprentice. Anything you would like to add?
    I added the ability to see for yourself. What more would anyone want? "They can easily pay...therefore they should." Marxist.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Fact one= Social Security has a $2.6-trillion surplus that is projected to grow to more than $4 trillion in 2023.

    Fact two= Social Security invests its surpluses, as it should, in U.S Treasury bonds, the safest interest-bearing securities in the world. The same paper that we sell to China, Japan and other wealthy investors.
    It is like monopoly money. There is nothing behind it. There no longer is any there, there. We are become Greece.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    We are become Greece.
    by now, everyone fully sane knows this

    it all comes down to character

  10. #270
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It is like monopoly money. There is nothing behind it. There no longer is any there, there. We are become Greece.
    Fact one= Social Security has a $2.6-trillion surplus that is projected to grow to more than $4 trillion in 2023.

    Fact two= Social Security invests its surpluses, as it should, in U.S Treasury bonds, the safest interest-bearing securities in the world. The same paper that we sell to China, Japan and other wealthy investors.


    Anything you would like to add besides your opinion?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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