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Thread: The results are in on social security

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    The government is now wondering how to pay back the loan – it's not their money – it belongs to Social Security."
    There are IOUs and unfunded liabilities. There is noting of value. Therefore there is no surplus. You have been lied to and you willingly repeat the lie.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    There are IOUs and unfunded liabilities. There is noting of value. Therefore there is no surplus. You have been lied to and you willingly repeat the lie.
    Thanks again for your opinion.
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    From my understanding we still need to do something within the next 25 years. To me the best solution in the mean time to extend this by perhaps another few years is to raise retirement age by 5 years up right now.
    we don't have 25 years. we have 8 until the entire budget begins to collapse, including SS

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    I would raise the FICA cap first and place the funds coming in through payroll taxes for SS off limits to general fund spending. .
    even the AARP now admits this won't come even close to funding Social Security in the coming years. if you were to tax everyone making $200,000 and up at a rate of 100%; that would only give you enough to cover Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security for the next five years.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    that regressive tax policy needs to be ended
    Agreed. The SS TAX is the poor paying for the rich and middle class to maintain their life styles. I personally think the entire program should be done away with in a responsible manner: anyone under 40 will continue to pay for the those above 40, but at a reduced rate and only to cover the majority of it to cover those who are currently getting SS benefits, those 40-50 will be guaranteed less and their retirement age should be raised, those 50-60 will have their retirement age raised and receive only slightly less than they would under the old system. Doing it this way is responsible because people cannot save enough money in 10-20 years to pay for 20-30 years of life.

    @CP Will - We have to have 25years or else we screw up everyone who has planned their life around certain expectations. We have to resolve it now, but the process should take 25years to full work out. Unless you want to see riots that is. Also, the only reason we have "8 years" is because of bond maturity in 2025. We can fiance the bond maturity without touching SS, Medicare, or Medicaid by cutting useless government departments.
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    cpwill

    even the AARP now admits this won't come even close to funding Social Security in the coming years. if you were to tax everyone making $200,000 and up at a rate of 100%; that would only give you enough to cover Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security for the next five years.


    I guess you being still on the rock, and not seeing the latest AARP commercials inundating the tubes here eh?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    we don't have 25 years. we have 8 until the entire budget begins to collapse, including SS



    even the AARP now admits this won't come even close to funding Social Security in the coming years. if you were to tax everyone making $200,000 and up at a rate of 100%; that would only give you enough to cover Medicare, Medicaid, and Social Security for the next five years.
    The AARP Report shows:

    The Social Security Trustees reaffirm that the program is financially strong for decades to come and can be strengthened for the future with relatively modest adjustments. With pensions, savings, and home equity down, many older workers unable to find jobs; and health costs continuing their upward climb, Social Security’s guaranteed benefits are more crucial than ever."

    AARP: Report shows Social Security is viable for another 25 years
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Social Security's real problem is not the trust fund - The Term Sheet: Fortune's deals blog Term Sheet

    But the trust fund balance isn't the right way to figure out Social Security's financial status. Rather, you need to look at the program's cash flow: the difference between the cash it collects and the benefits that it pays out.
    Friday's report said that Social Security now projects cash flow deficits as far as the eye can see. It's the first time that's happened since Social Security taxes were raised and growth in benefits was trimmed back in the early 1980s. That's the real numbers news, as opposed to the trust fund stuff.

    Why do I pooh-pooh the trust fund, the metric almost everyone uses, and care about cash flow, which is widely ignored? Because the "trust fund" is an abstraction whose shortfalls can be "solved" by diverting general revenues into the system or by simply giving Social Security more Treasury securities. But the cash flow deficit can't be covered over with fancy financial footwork.
    Take this year as an example. Social Security projects that it will collect about $46 billion less in cash than it will pay out in retirement and disability benefits. However, Social Security's revenues include about $105 billion it will get from the Treasury to cover the cost of this year's "tax holiday" for employees, who pay only 4.2% Social Security tax on their wages of up to $106,800 rather than the normal 6.2%. The Treasury has to borrow that $105 billion, in addition to borrowing the $46 billion to redeem the Treasury securities that Social Security will cash in to cover its cash shortfall. Total Social Security-related borrowing: about $150 billion.
    This is a pretty good read and points out just some of the troubles with SS seeing it CNN maybe liberals will actually read it .. and understand how slight of hand book keeping can make anything look good. .. then again

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Yep, a good read:

    "No, I'm not saying that Social Security is in crisis. And I think it would be only fair for the government to make good on its trust fund obligations, because they represent money that wage earners thought was being set aside for their future benefits, but was spent on general government purposes."

    I think it is fairly obvious that increased funding of SS through an increase in the FICA cap will be needed for the next 25 years to pay back the SS money that was used to fund the M.E. wars in order to prevent payment problems projected in 2036.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Yep, a good read:

    "No, I'm not saying that Social Security is in crisis. And I think it would be only fair for the government to make good on its trust fund obligations, because they represent money that wage earners thought was being set aside for their future benefits, but was spent on general government purposes."

    I think it is fairly obvious that increased funding of SS through an increase in the FICA cap will be needed for the next 25 years to pay back the SS money that was used to fund the M.E. wars in order to prevent payment problems projected in 2036.
    See this is where liberals and conservatives disagree, the liberals first thought process in every problem is to raise the tax. As if that is the only solution to any problem.

    But I go back and wonder what was the average life expectancy of a working man back when SS was first started? Was it meant to pay people for and average of 13 years of non productivity? (in the work force) I see nothing wrong with raising the retirement age to early retirement to 65, and full retirement to 67, to keep it fair .. a one year raise in the first 10 years, the next raise in the next 10 years. That would mean that a worker who is 50 today .. will have to work one more year .. and workers that are 40 would have to work two more years, those above 50 would not be effected.

    If that doesn't do it, then lets look at a very small increase in the tax rate of SS for all people for the first 10 years, along with raising the cap .. say $25,000 to see us through until the older age kicks in. Make that tax increase the very same as Bush made his tax cuts, they just expire after 10 years.

    This way everyone, is helping to cure a problem not just 10% of the working population, everyone agrees these are hard times, shouldn't all people kick in to help ?

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
    See this is where liberals and conservatives disagree, the liberals first thought process in every problem is to raise the tax. As if that is the only solution to any problem.

    But I go back and wonder what was the average life expectancy of a working man back when SS was first started? Was it meant to pay people for and average of 13 years of non productivity? (in the work force) I see nothing wrong with raising the retirement age to early retirement to 65, and full retirement to 67, to keep it fair .. a one year raise in the first 10 years, the next raise in the next 10 years. That would mean that a worker who is 50 today .. will have to work one more year .. and workers that are 40 would have to work two more years, those above 50 would not be effected.

    If that doesn't do it, then lets look at a very small increase in the tax rate of SS for all people for the first 10 years, along with raising the cap .. say $25,000 to see us through until the older age kicks in. Make that tax increase the very same as Bush made his tax cuts, they just expire after 10 years.

    This way everyone, is helping to cure a problem not just 10% of the working population, everyone agrees these are hard times, shouldn't all people kick in to help ?
    Far right conservatives first thought is to reduce benefits to the elderly rather than addressing the root cause of the problem.

    BTW, the problem of insufficient SS funds is not due to increased benefits being paid out, it is due to SS revenue being used to fund other General fund obligations that taxes should have been raised to pay for, such as our decade long multiple unfunded ME wars.

    If all people had received an an equal break in taxes that created the problem that would make sense, but since the wealthy got way more in tax breaks they should pay way more to fix the problems their tax breaks created.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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