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Thread: The results are in on social security

  1. #131
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    And neither is allowing people to manage their own retirement plans. IRAs are pretty stable

    Not as stable as SS.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Looks more stable lately.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The distorted price signals occur largely because no one pays for health insurance themselves so hospitals get away from largely charging anything they want. Its not because of tax code.
    this is incorrect - the tax code is the reason we have a system based on employer provided health insurance - because it is tax-free. The Tax Code currently distorts prices to the tune of your tax rate plus both sides of the payroll tax rate towards third-party-payments. You can thank FDR for that one.

    The price for the mortgage wasn't reduced or even tried to be reduced.
    this is also incorrect. reduction in the price of mortgages was the explicit reason for existence of the GSE's, and the explicit goal of housing policy on both sides of the aisle. From Barney "I want to roll the dice a little more in favor of sub-prime mortgages" Frank to George "ownership society" Bush, everyone was in agreement that government economic policy could distort the market towards home-ownership with only benign consequences. Those few who spoke out in disagreement were smacked down by a bipartisan consensus in favor of price distortion and de facto bubble-creation.

    With a national sales tax, no matter how it is written, downward pressure is applied to credit.
    do you mean to the price of credit? or to the incentive to borrow v spend v invest?

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Looks more stable lately.
    well, to be fair, "death" is stable.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Adults know that defense is an enumerated Constitutional responsibility of government. Those educated in government schools by public sector union teacher might not know this. Which side are you on? Are you a Constitutionalist or a Statist?
    You mention "defense". So how many out of the last 10 major "conflicts", we don't declare war anymore because that requires an act of Congress instead of a personal edict by the Commander in Chief., were direct defense of the sovereignty of the US?

    James Madison says it best:

    "Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people.... [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and ... degeneracy of manners and of morals.... No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. "
    God Has Boobs. It's in the Bible.

  6. #136
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    And neither is allowing people to manage their own retirement plans. IRAs are pretty stable
    You have more people borrowing on their IRA,s than anytime since they been in existence. What do you think will be the effect of that when these people get to retirement age?
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  7. #137
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    this is also incorrect. reduction in the price of mortgages was the explicit reason for existence of the GSE's, and the explicit goal of housing policy on both sides of the aisle. From Barney "I want to roll the dice a little more in favor of sub-prime mortgages" Frank to George "ownership society" Bush, everyone was in agreement that government economic policy could distort the market towards home-ownership with only benign consequences. Those few who spoke out in disagreement were smacked down by a bipartisan consensus in favor of price distortion and de facto bubble-creation.
    The price of the mortgages never went down, the amount you paid per month might have, but at the end of the term you still owed more than you borrowed and usually more with sub-primes. It was not designed to drive the price down, it was designed to allow more people to get loans. It was retarded


    do you mean to the price of credit? or to the incentive to borrow v spend v invest?
    If the latter is affected by less people borrowing than the former will get cheaper as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    You have more people borrowing on their IRA,s than anytime since they been in existence. What do you think will be the effect of that when these people get to retirement age?
    Not my problem. You can't force people to be intelligent and SS will eventually run out of money.

  8. #138
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    xpiher

    Not my problem.
    It will be when people start starving, unless you’re OK with fellow citizens dying while standing in line waiting for a bowl of soup and a couple of crackers.


    You can't force people to be intelligent

    Many of the people borrowing from there 401k,s thought what they were doing at the time was the intelligent thing to do (feed hungry children).Yeh, I know, in winger land that is an unintelligent thing to do.

    They thought of it as a bridge loan, that would only be for a few weeks, or at the most a couple of months until they got a job. Sadly, the bush recession got in the way.



    SS will eventually run out of money.

    Not if we take the cap off at $300 k and start paying the money that uncle sugar borrowed out of it.

    Ya no, like honoring a debt made that we made 40 years before we started borrowing from China for our wars.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

  9. #139
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The price of the mortgages never went down
    this is incorrect - the price you pay for borrowing money with which to purchase a home was driven down as far as monetary policy could push the fixed rates, and then even further with the variables.

    If the latter is affected by less people borrowing than the former will get cheaper as well.
    i'm just not sure what you are saying - are you arguing that rates will fall under a sales tax?

  10. #140
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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    They thought of it as a bridge loan, that would only be for a few weeks, or at the most a couple of months until they got a job. Sadly, the bush recession got in the way.
    not the bush recession any more.

    UCLA economists say they have figured out why the Great Depression dragged on for almost 15 years, and they blame a suspect previously thought to be beyond reproach: President Franklin D. Roosevelt... "Why the Great Depression lasted so long has always been a great mystery, and because we never really knew the reason, we have always worried whether we would have another 10- to 15-year economic slump," said Ohanian, vice chair of UCLA's Department of Economics. "We found that a relapse isn't likely unless lawmakers gum up a recovery with ill-conceived stimulus policies."...


    Not if we take the cap off at $300 k and start paying the money that uncle sugar borrowed out of it.
    1. yes, even if we take off the cap and
    2. paying money back into the SS Trust fund requires that the US General budget run a surplus of hundreds of billions of dollars every year from here on out - do you see us running hundreds of billions in surpluses any time soon?

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