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Thread: The results are in on social security

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Anyone here care to answer me this question. Who here thinks that it’s a good idea for the United States Government to default on special issue Treasury bonds?
    Who thinks we had better be seriously cutting federal spending? Including all of those awesome entitlement that steal from the grand kids in order to enrich the greedy geezers, the grandparents?
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 06-11-11 at 12:14 AM.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It is an IOU. It is worthless. It has always been worthless. It was a fraud. I wish we could go after the wealth of every politician that has ever voted for these entitlement that are so far out of control. I would start by bankrupting them and their heirs.
    It only became fraud when congress voted to allow the trust fund to be used in the general fund. Now its full of AAA IOUS (T-notes)

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    It only became fraud when congress voted to allow the trust fund to be used in the general fund. Now its full of AAA IOUS (T-notes)
    FDR was in on the original fraud. It has been true from the beginning. Than you mister Roosevelt. Democrats love you. Right thinking Americans might have a different opinion.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Sure thing, raise the cap and start paying the special issue Treasury bonds AKA ious with money generated.
    raising taxes on a very weak recovery is a bad idea that - historically - won't bring us any extra revenue.

    It doesn't even come close to paying off even a small fraction of what we "owe" Social Security. It would be like having the Obama girls sell lemonade to fix the deficit.

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    I repeat

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Social Security is useless. It would be much better to allow the percentage of a person's check that goes to social security, minus the amount that is used to help pay for disabled people, to be tax free.
    10 char

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    raising taxes on a very weak recovery is a bad idea that - historically - won't bring us any extra revenue.

    It doesn't even come close to paying off even a small fraction of what we "owe" Social Security. It would be like having the Obama girls sell lemonade to fix the deficit.
    Bill Clinton raised taxes in a recession and nearly 40M new jobs were created.
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    DotCom anyone?
    Bad example Don :P

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    Bill Clinton raised taxes in a recession and nearly 40M new jobs were created.
    That is incorrect. Clinton raised taxes and it helped produce a Republican takeover of the House. Then Clinton cut capital gains taxes and what do you know? Investment increased.

    In 1993, Clinton raised taxes on upper-income Americans, boosting the top rate to nearly 40 percent. But the higher tax rates didn't boost government revenues as Democrats and the administration hoped,... "The tax increases added very little to Treasury receipts despite their magnitude. Reports from the Congressional Budget Office and the Office of Management and Budget, and the Internal Revenue Service all agree,"... Clinton boasts about his budget surpluses, but they did not occur until after the Republican-run Congress sent him a deficit-reducing bill in 1997 that he signed reluctantly. Among its tax cut provisions, it cut the capital gains rate from 28 percent to 20 percent. "The 1997 rate reduction on capital gains unleashed the economy, causing capital investment to more than triple by 1998 and double again in 1999. Treasury receipts for this category of tax obligation increased dramatically," Shenk found...

    none of which serves to answer the point at all - which is that you can't raise taxes enough to save the entitlements. Not "as a conservative i don't want you to", but rather "as a matter of mathematics it is literally not possible".

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That is incorrect. Clinton raised taxes and it helped produce a Republican takeover of the House. Then Clinton cut capital gains taxes and what do you know? Investment increased.




    none of which serves to answer the point at all - which is that you can't raise taxes enough to save the entitlements. Not "as a conservative i don't want you to", but rather "as a matter of mathematics it is literally not possible".
    I hardly think cutting capital gains taxes alone would produce these numbers. Notice the four years from 1994 thru 1997I believe that the capitol gains rate was 28% during that period, then it was lowered to 20%%.

    I also believe that it was lowered by bush in 2003 to its present level of 15%. I guess we could get by with raising it to the Clinton level of 20% with no harm eh?


    He kept the top capital gains tax rate at 28% until 1997,

    Clinton signed the law on August of 1993.On that date the unemployment was 111119 (bls figures) on Dec of the same year it was (112206)

    Dec of 1994, it was (116057)

    Dec of 1995, it was (118207)

    Dec of 1996, it was (121001)

    Dec of 1997, it was (124358)

    Dec of 1998, it was (127359)

    Dec of 1999, it was (130532)

    Dec of 2000, it was (132485)
    The haggardness of poverty is everywhere seen contrasted with the sleekness of wealth, the exhorted labor of some compensating for the idleness of others, wretched hovels by the side of stately colonnades, the rags of indigence blended with the ensigns of opulence; in a word, the most useless profusion in the midst of the most urgent wants.Jean-Baptiste Say

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    Re: The results are in on social security

    Quote Originally Posted by donc View Post
    I hardly think cutting capital gains taxes alone would produce these numbers
    actually, due to capitals' fungibility, it is exceedingly elastic.

    Notice the four years from 1994 thru 1997…I believe that the capitol gains rate was 28% during that period, then it was lowered to 20%%.

    I also believe that it was lowered by bush in 2003 to its present level of 15%. I guess we could get by with raising it to the Clinton level of 20% with no harm eh?
    only if we wanted to see investment go elsewhere, and job creation lowered even futher Canada is currently lowering their corporate tax to 15%, precisely because they know it will make them more competitive than the US.




    when you reduce the reward of participating in a certain kind of behavior (be it work, investment, or what have you), you reduce the incentive to engage in it, and you thus reduce the amount of it that will be done. the process works the same in reverse.

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