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Arizona SWAT Team Defends Shooting Iraq Vet 60 Times

Caine said:
Think what you want......
Ive never noticed an eager-ness to enforce laws just for the purpose of confiscating property in my 5 years in law enforcement. And ive even seized stuff.

But, meh, Im sure you have some sort of factual and articulate basis to form your opinion as to the mental state, motivation, and purpose of these departments/officers enforcing these laws.

Surely you wouldn't just be speculating out of general disdain for law enforcement in general. People don't do that....:roll:
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Caine said:
Listen, I don't agree with what happened here either.

But, don't change the facts of the case in order to express your melodramatic reaction.

"smoking pot" and "trafficking pot" are two different things.
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Trafficking pot dealers need to be shot 60 times? Pull your damn head out. Law enforcement has reached tyrannical proportions.
 
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Mickey Shane said:
Trafficking pot dealers need to be shot 60 times? Pull your damn head out. Law enforcement has reached tyrannical proportions.
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You think it was one guy shooting him and he was counting?

It was several guys shooting, and nobody counts when they think they are about to be shot by a guy with an assault rifle.

Pull YOUR damn head out.
 
Caine said:
You think it was one guy shooting him and he was counting?

It was several guys shooting, and nobody counts when they think they are about to be shot by a guy with an assault rifle.

Pull YOUR damn head out.
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If law enforcement needs SWAT teams to bust pot dealers (misdemeanor by the way), they are chicken ****. I also wouldn't be surprised if his assault rifle was found and loaded after he was already dead.
 
Mickey Shane said:
If law enforcement needs SWAT teams to bust pot dealers (misdemeanor by the way), they are chicken ****. I also wouldn't be surprised if his assault rifle was found and loaded after he was already dead.
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Trafficking Marijuana is not a misdemeanor.

As per the rest of your comment.... It doesnt surprise me that a person so anti-police would suggest such an idiotic thing.
 
Caine said:
Think what you want......
Ive never noticed an eager-ness to enforce laws just for the purpose of confiscating property in my 5 years in law enforcement. And ive even seized stuff.
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I suspect that these kinds of things take place more often in rural areas where it's easier to get enough people in on the game to keep it going under wraps.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
I suspect that these kinds of things take place more often in rural areas where it's easier to get enough people in on the game to keep it going under wraps.
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Not necessarily. I described in another thread that when I worked as CFO for a SoCalif bedroom community, the first of these civil seizure laws were passed and the police department promptly began conducting drug stings... note that drugs were not a big problem in those days in that community... strictly to seize citizen's property, which they then used as a police department slush fund that the city was not allowed to monitor or audit.
 
Mickey Shane said:
If law enforcement needs SWAT teams to bust pot dealers (misdemeanor by the way), they are chicken ****. I also wouldn't be surprised if his assault rifle was found and loaded after he was already dead.
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Though i know many "hippyish" pot dealers, I also know plenty of others who are nothing more than thugs and would have no issue with hospitalizing someone or even shooting them. So let's not act as if pot is anything more than a commodity to many of the people that sell it, or that they are nobler, in general, than your average drug dealer.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
Though i know many "hippyish" pot dealers, I also know plenty of others who are nothing more than thugs and would have no issue with hospitalizing someone or even shooting them. So let's not act as if pot is anything more than a commodity to many of the people that sell it, or that they are nobler, in general, than your average drug dealer.
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Too bad they didn't find any pot in the house. The guy is just as dead.
 
DiAnna said:
Not necessarily. I described in another thread that when I worked as CFO for a SoCalif bedroom community, the first of these civil seizure laws were passed and the police department promptly began conducting drug stings... note that drugs were not a big problem in those days in that community... strictly to seize citizen's property, which they then used as a police department slush fund that the city was not allowed to monitor or audit.
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The original federal civil seizure laws were so badly abused that Congress actually modified the legislation to address it. Iirc, it was the first time in a long time that Congress relegistated a law that quickly, and without the Supreme Courts intervention.

Not sure of the details, but it WAS limited to reduce abuse.
 
ManofthPeephole said:
Though i know many "hippyish" pot dealers, I also know plenty of others who are nothing more than thugs and would have no issue with hospitalizing someone or even shooting them. So let's not act as if pot is anything more than a commodity to many of the people that sell it, or that they are nobler, in general, than your average drug dealer.
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California is way more laid back. Must be the decriminalization. Other drugs get the violence thing, but pot not so much.
 
DiAnna said:
Too bad they didn't find any pot in the house. The guy is just as dead.
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I was commenting on a remark about pot dealers, not the story in particular
 
What if...? said:
California is way more laid back. Must be the decriminalization. Other drugs get the violence thing, but pot not so much.
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Of course it's the decriminalization. It's like alcohol, and the lack of bootleggers running whiskey from Canada and Mexico, since ending prohibition
 
Caine said:
Trafficking Marijuana is not a misdemeanor.

As per the rest of your comment.... It doesnt surprise me that a person so anti-police would suggest such an idiotic thing.
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Wiki says selling pot is a felony. I did not know that until now. I stand corrected.

I'm not a Cop hater. I live on a cul-de-sac with two police officers and a police detective. I like the extra security that my home has against burglary.

It's just that I've read enough articles about crooked Cops that they do not get an automatic pass with me. Yesterday, an east Oak Cliff man was sentenced to life in prison for killing an officer by firing through the door. The Cops were kicking in his door to serve a warrant against a cousin of his who wasn't even there at the time. He claimed that he thought that they were intruders.

What ever happened to knocking on the door first? Why the police state intrusions? Obviously the jury felt something for the defendant. They wouldn't charge him with a capital crime. The Cops could have knocked, the defendant could have opened the door and told them that his cousin wasn't there. Let them search the house, whatever. Instead we get a deceased LEO and a man in the pen for a couple of decades.

This all started when LEOs began being trained to "control the situation". Looks like some situations can't be readily controlled.
 
Mickey Shane said:
Yesterday, an east Oak Cliff man was sentenced to life in prison for killing an officer by firing through the door. The Cops were kicking in his door to serve a warrant against a cousin of his who wasn't even there at the time. He claimed that he thought that they were intruders.

What ever happened to knocking on the door first?
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How do you know they didnt and the man just didnt hear them at first because he was sleeping or something?
The Cops could have knocked, the defendant could have opened the door and told them that his cousin wasn't there. Let them search the house, whatever. Instead we get a deceased LEO and a man in the pen for a couple of decades.
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And that could have already happened that the LEOs knocked and the guy didnt hear it in his sleep.

This all started when LEOs began being trained to "control the situation". Looks like some situations can't be readily controlled.
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Whats your problem with law enforcement controlling the situation?

Im sorry, before I show up to a domestic where the two parties continue to argue and cuss each other like I was not even there I am going to "control the situation".
 
What if...? said:
The original federal civil seizure laws were so badly abused that Congress actually modified the legislation to address it. Iirc, it was the first time in a long time that Congress relegistated a law that quickly, and without the Supreme Courts intervention.

Not sure of the details, but it WAS limited to reduce abuse.
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It wasn't limited enough. I believe it's unconstitutional and am stunned that after these abusive laws being in effect for more than 25 years they haven't been taken to SCOTUS and overturned.
 
Simon W. Moon said:
What was the rationale offered for that?
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As the law was written, they didn't have to, so neither the city manager, the financial officer (me), nor the city council had any access to the money the police department raked in. In Orange County, all the cities' police departments used a county impound and auction yard, and took the money straight back to their own departments.
 
No convictions on his record. He owned a Border Patrol hat, some commercial plastic wrap, 6 cars, a couple of assault rifles, and a pistol.

No drugs were found in his residence. He raised his weapon, but never released the safety. Post traumatic stress syndrome induced suicide by Cop is my diagnosis.

Was he involved in drug dealing? I believe that he probably was, yet there's no capital punishment offense for drug dealing. I think he just wanted to clear his head from what he saw in Iraq.
 
Mickey Shane said:
Post traumatic stress syndrome induced suicide by Cop is my diagnosis
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and your expertise in the field is exactly what, too much time and a connection to the internet?


Mickey Shane said:
Was he involved in drug dealing? I believe that he probably was, yet there's no capital punishment offense for drug dealing. I think he just wanted to clear his head from what he saw in Iraq.
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1) if he was only interested in clearing his head, then he would be doing drugs, not running them

2) look, I hate cops as much as the next guy, but you raise your weapon at someone, regardless if the safety is engaged, or not, be prepared to trade rounds with them
 
They could have just knocked first. When men with guns kick down my door, my first thoughts are not police.
 
DrunkenAsparagus said:
They could have just knocked first. When men with guns kick down my door, my first thoughts are not police.
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according to the above article they ran a siren, and stated they were cops, before trying to enter

Edit: rereading the article it says they played a siren, then knocked, before entering
 
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