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Thread: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnWOlin View Post
    I've always said regardless of what party I affiliate with, **** any country that doesn't cooperate with United States. I'm a father first, an American second, and a democrat third. If they don't want to make things better for me? then **** them.
    America is messing with Venezuela. Are you surprised they might act out because of it? I would guess Obama is going to act surprised, but can he really be? I mean isn't it kind of obvious what the response was going to be?

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US | venezuelanalysis.com

    Venezuela’s government strongly rejected the Obama administration’s attempt to sanction its state-owned oil industry, PDVSA, and interrupt its relations with other nations. Latin American nations and groups worldwide have expressed support for Venezuela’s defiant stance.

    On Tuesday morning, the US State Department, announced it was imposing unilateral sanctions against seven international companies, including Petroleos de Venezuela, S.A. (PDVSA). This decision marks the first time the US government has taken direct hostile action against the Venezuelan state-owned oil company, which is one of the largest oil companies in the world.

    The Venezuelan government reacted firmly to the unilaterally imposed sanctions, clearly stating it will no adhere to any decision made by the US government regarding its oil business, nor will it accept any US interference in its relations with other nations. During a joint press conference late Tuesday afternoon, Venezuela’s Foreign Minister, Nicolas Maduro, and PDVSA President and Oil Minister, Rafael Ramirez, labeled the US sanctions as a “hostile act of aggression” against the South American nation. They also announced that Venezuela is “thoroughly evaluating its response” and whether the US decision will “affect the supply of 1.2 million barrels of oil daily to the US”.
    Why the sanctions?
    Not really informed on the whole Venezuelan thing.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I was talking about the nationalization. Makes conservatives squeal on general principle.

    And I bet you support overthrow and installation of a puppet, so we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars cleaning it up 20-30 years later.
    What are you talking about? Venezuela is already a huge mess.

    Venezula was actually a developed country back in the days, in the 50s. Also, social democrats/socialists have been pretty much running the country since 1958. Now the economy is going down again, while rest of South America is doing well. This is despite their large oil revenues.

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    America is messing with Venezuela. Are you surprised they might act out because of it? I would guess Obama is going to act surprised, but can he really be? I mean isn't it kind of obvious what the response was going to be?
    Hey man I'm not arguing and you got a point, all I am saying is **** them. If it were Bush I would say the same thing. The only countries I kind of let slide are the ones that are kind of nuts anyways like say, North Korea.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Any else notice the most disturbing part of all this?

    declared Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez on Twitter this Tuesday (@chavezcandanga)
    So follow me into the desert
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    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Why the sanctions?
    Not really informed on the whole Venezuelan thing.
    From the OP:
    According to State Department releases, the sanctions fall under the Iran Sanctions Act (ISA) of 1996, as amended by the Comprehensive Iran Sanctions, Accountability and Divestment Act (CISADA) of 2010, for alleged “activities in support of Iran’s energy sector”. In the case of Venezuela, the State Department claims PDVSA “violated” the US legislation by “selling at least two cargoes of reformate to Iran between December 2010 and March 2011”. Reformate is a blending component that improves the quality of gasoline, which somehow, the US government alleges, can help enable Iran to make nuclear bombs.

    HTH
    Last edited by spud_meister; 05-29-11 at 08:11 PM.
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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    KNow what you're talking about before you try to bring empty smack. Bolivarian socialism has had a pretty tremendous impact on the lives of venezuela's poor. Of course it is messy, theyre going it on their own. The infastructure in the states and venezuela is designed for venezuelan crude and this will merely incentivize their will to supply to china and change their infastructure themselves. Also, since when was cracking down on parties that support illegal american led coups against sovereign and legitimately elected governments not okay?
    The jump in quality-of-life for most Venezuelans has been because oil prices tripled immediately after Chavez' revolution, not because of Chavez himself. The programs themselves are only a blip on the radar or a continuation of a pre-existing programs (as in, programs that predated Chavez). If they are messy, its their communist dictator's fault. Had there not been a massive oil depression in the 80s, we would still have the previous government in effect, and we would have seen an even GREATER improvement in Venezuelan standards of living. Also, it was not "PDVSA" in itself that supported the coup. It was the employees. And guess what? 18,000 of them were fired after the lockout ended. The same people aren't there anymore.

    So maybe you're the one who should know their facts before talking smack?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I was talking about the nationalization. Makes conservatives squeal on general principle.

    And I bet you support overthrow and installation of a puppet, so we can spend hundreds of billions of dollars cleaning it up 20-30 years later.
    Well, when a blatantly nationalized company is competing for American contracts, backed by an anti-American dictator? You'll excuse me if I don't enjoy feeding the mouth that bites us. And let's not make insulting generalizations, shall we? Just because I don't support a repressive socialist dictator, doesn't mean I'm some sort of corporate neo-colonial stooge.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 05-29-11 at 08:30 PM.
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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    The jump in quality-of-life for most Venezuelans has been because oil prices tripled immediately after Chavez' revolution, not because of Chavez himself. The programs themselves are only a blip on the radar or a continuation of a pre-existing programs (as in, programs that predated Chavez). If they are messy, its their communist dictator's fault. Had there not been a massive oil depression in the 80s, we would still have the previous government in effect, and we would have seen an even GREATER improvement in Venezuelan standards of living. Also, it was not "PDVSA" in itself that supported the coup. It was the employees. And guess what? 18,000 of them were fired after the lockout ended. The same people aren't there anymore.

    So maybe you're the one who should know their facts before talking smack?



    Well, when a blatantly nationalized company is competing for American contracts, backed by an anti-American dictator? You'll excuse me if I don't enjoy feeding the mouth that bites us. And let's not make insulting generalizations, shall we? Just because I don't support a repressive socialist dictator, doesn't mean I'm some sort of corporate neo-colonial stooge.
    Bites us? Seriously?

    And your history of venezuela varies significantly from that of those I have met who have lived and worked in the region.

    Its still transitioning from the neocolonialism you mention.

    And years of abject peasantry does NOT equip a people to govern themselves overnight.

    From what I understand Chavez is a bombastic egomaniac, but is actually trying to make things better.

    Corporate interests who had their assets nationalized are still trying to get their peasants back, in addition to all their land and factories,etc.

    I know Chavez talks a lot of smack about the US, but has he actually done anything?

    I despise propaganda in all its myriad forms. And I have caught folks at the "evil socialist" game far too many times. You can usually tell by their absolute idolatry of capitalism, considering any critique pure heresy.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Bites us? Seriously?
    Seriously.

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    And your history of venezuela varies significantly from that of those I have met who have lived and worked in the region.
    I'd love to hear it.

    Forgive me for jumping to conclusions but does it go something like "...evil corporate interests were the ones who provoked the Bolivarian revolution with their callous disregard for the common man. Chavez might be a little crazy but he's improving Venezuela, and of course he hates America because of the evil corporations that were here!" Am I totally off base? Because, admittedly, I might be.

    Also, the theory that "if oil prices had not dropped, Venezuelans living conditions would not have plummeted and the revolution would not have happened" is pretty mainstream scholastic thought, so you can't call me an apologist.

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Its still transitioning from the neocolonialism you mention.
    That's not something I disagree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    And years of abject peasantry does NOT equip a people to govern themselves overnight.
    ...so Chavez gets a mulligan because he's ignorant?

    From what I understand Chavez is a bombastic egomaniac, but is actually trying to make things better.

    Corporate interests who had their assets nationalized are still trying to get their peasants back, in addition to all their land and factories,etc.
    The Fedecámaras are what they are -- a group representing big business. I'm not going to debate whether they are saints or sinners, because the truth probably lies somewhere in between. But if Chavez is such a righteous anti-corporate crusader, would you care to explain to me why he burns the candle at both ends and ALSO represses the Confederación de Trabajadores de Venezuela? That's a labor union, not a corporation. Are they ALSO trying to get their land and their factories back? The International Labour Organisation and International Confederation of Free Trade Unions panned Chavez's interference in the Confederación. Are they also playing the "evil socialist" game? It's not a question of how he treats corporations and, if you look at my previous posts, it never was (...hell, Mossadegh did the same thing in Iran and I will OPENLY admit that killing him was a mistake). I merely said that the PDVSA was nationalized and, since 2002, has represented the will of the government. It's a question of how he treats people, and what his foreign policy goals are. More on that below.

    (Also, I am assuming you know of all the groups I just mentioned, since you have asserted your knowledge of Venezuelan history.)

    I know Chavez talks a lot of smack about the US, but has he actually done anything?
    Attempted to destabilize the legitimate government of Alvaro Uribe by sponsoring the Fuerzas Armadas Revolucionarias de Colombia, a terrorist group that kills civilians, smuggles cocaine, uses child soldiers. For what purpose? Why, to spread the Bolivarian revolution!

    Is this ringing any bells yet?

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    I despise propaganda in all its myriad forms. And I have caught folks at the "evil socialist" game far too many times. You can usually tell by their absolute idolatry of capitalism, considering any critique pure heresy.
    Well in that case, you should be able to plainly see that I am not playing the "evil socialist" game.
    Last edited by Jeezy; 05-30-11 at 12:04 AM.
    SWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAGSWAG
    Quote Originally Posted by Josie
    Thanks for your awesomeness, Jeezy.

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    Re: Venezuela Rejects US Sanctions, Evaluates Oil Supply to US

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeezy View Post
    Let's see here...

    a. Sanctioning PDVSA means less money for PDVSA.

    b. Less money for PDVSA means less money for Hugo Chavez.
    Ok.

    c. Less money for Hugo Chavez means less resources to run a repressive,
    Repressive?
    Repressive on what?
    Im guessing your going to say media. There are currently between 90 and 100 newspapers and of which at least 80% side with the political opposition, and on radio there are at least 400 that broadcast the oppositions side? In a recent study "Venezuelan state TV channels had just a 5.4 percent audience share. Of the other 94.6 percent of the audience, 61.4 percent were watching privately owned television channels, and 33.1 percent were watching paid TV.

    authoritarian,
    How is he authoritarian?

    government that enjoys simultaneously crapping on America while exploiting its voracious demand for oil and gas to fund its "socialist" experiments.
    How is he crapping on America? I think he just wants what is best for his people rather what is best for the giant multinational corporations...

    There. I spelled it out for you.
    Kinda lame.


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