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Thread: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

  1. #61
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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by tlmorg02 View Post
    I do not understand Republicans. The populace, well at least those who actually have something to lose under Ryan's plan, have rejected his plan. McConnell wants to make this plan the GOP starting point in debt ceiling negotiation? And there are people on here saying they will win 2012?

    I am comfortable with them having this position completely.
    This is laughable. If you are comfortable with doing nothing, will you be comfortable if the system is shut down entirely? The system is headed for a hard crash as more and more of the baby boomers retire.

    This is entirely the problem with "entitlements" once you give them something they feel entitled to it and you cannot cut it or remove it. Never mind that someone has to pay for it, like their kids and grandkids. Medicare needs deep changes because that can has been kicked down the road one time too many, so how about instead of Dems griping about Ryan's plan they quit hiding under the politicial bed they propose one of their own.

    Meh that would take some political courage, wouldnt it?

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    This is laughable. If you are comfortable with doing nothing, will you be comfortable if the system is shut down entirely? The system is headed for a hard crash as more and more of the baby boomers retire.

    This is entirely the problem with "entitlements" once you give them something they feel entitled to it and you cannot cut it or remove it. Never mind that someone has to pay for it, like their kids and grandkids. Medicare needs deep changes because that can has been kicked down the road one time too many, so how about instead of Dems griping about Ryan's plan they quit hiding under the politicial bed they propose one of their own.

    Meh that would take some political courage, wouldnt it?
    Not sure he said do nothing. I think he said he was comfortable with thme having this position.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    This is laughable. If you are comfortable with doing nothing, will you be comfortable if the system is shut down entirely? The system is headed for a hard crash as more and more of the baby boomers retire.

    This is entirely the problem with "entitlements" once you give them something they feel entitled to it and you cannot cut it or remove it. Never mind that someone has to pay for it, like their kids and grandkids. Medicare needs deep changes because that can has been kicked down the road one time too many, so how about instead of Dems griping about Ryan's plan they quit hiding under the politicial bed they propose one of their own.

    Meh that would take some political courage, wouldnt it?
    Not at all. The single biggest cost in the Medicare/Medicad system is the huge expense of paying for nursing homes and prescription drugs. The best solution would be to find some improvements in those areas as well as cut out the tremendous fat from the system. Also, people need to learn that you do not have to run to the doctor for every little thing. I know people myself who, because they have Medicare/Medicad, go to the doctor way more than necessary just because they can.

    There needs to be some limits put in place whether it be in the form of paying more when you use more, or some other factor. i would be in favor of penalizing people who go to the ER for non-life threatening issues, as well as penalizing doctors who use the elderly like cash cows.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Roll medicare into medicaid, means test just like medicaid does now, offer options for people to opt-in to the program for a free based on sliding scale ... profit

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Roll medicare into medicaid, means test just like medicaid does now, offer options for people to opt-in to the program for a free based on sliding scale ... profit
    Means test, means test, means test. A+ you my good sir.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Sgt Meowenstein View Post
    McConnell is refering to the Ryan budget. The budget that effectively ends Medicare. There is no way in hell Dems will go along with that. Therefore; there will be no deal if McConnel insists on those terms. Get back to me when you have a clue.
    Maybe you should get back to us when YOU have a clue.... or not. I think I prefer or not.

    PolitiFact | Throw-granny-from-the-cliff ad asks what the U.S. would be
    But the notion that the Paul Ryan budget proposal would leave the country "without Medicare" merits a rating of False.

    FACT CHECK: Democrats distort GOP Medicare plan

    A look at Wasserman Schultz’s statements and how they compare with the facts:

    ___

    WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: “They would take the people who are younger than 55 years old today and tell them: ‘You know what, you’re on your own. Go and find private health insurance in the health care insurance market; we’re going to throw you to the wolves and allow insurance companies to deny you coverage and drop you for pre-existing conditions. We’re going to give you X amount of dollars, and you figure it out.’”

    THE FACTS: First, the Ryan plan explicitly forbids insurance companies from denying coverage to anyone who qualifies for Medicare, including those who have pre-existing illnesses. Second, it does not merely send money to the elderly and leave them to their own devices in arranging for medical care.

    The plan calls for Medicare to stay the same for people 55 and older. But starting in 2022, new beneficiaries would get their health insurance from competing private insurers instead of from the government. The government would offer subsidies to pay for the coverage and set standards that insurers must follow. One condition, says the plan, is that participating insurers “agree to offer insurance to all Medicare beneficiaries, to avoid cherry-picking and ensure that Medicare’s sickest and highest-cost beneficiaries receive coverage.”
    PolitiFact | Debbie Wasserman Schultz says Ryan Medicare plan would allow insurers to use pre-existing conditions as barrier to coverage
    Wasserman Schultz is free to criticize the Ryan plan on any number of grounds, but in her comment, she went too far. Both the budget plan that passed the House and its predecessor, Ryan-Rivlin, specifically noted that coverage could not be prevented by a pre-existing condition. It may be easier to say you’ll bar "cherry picking" patients than it is to put it into practice, but Ryan has made his intentions consistently clear. We rate her statement False.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    I think this is the critical passage:

    Many Democrats criticized our ruling, arguing that the Ryan proposal would change the program so fundamentally -- revoking its status as a government-run, single-payer system -- that the plan ends Medicare. As Erica Payne, the founder and president of the Agenda Project, put it, "While it is true that a rose by any other name will smell as sweet, a rose with no petals is just a thorny stick."

    But we disagree, because dramatically changing a program is not the same as ending it.

    http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...would-be-with/

    I don't think we need the hyperbole here concerning killing granny. It is enough to say it gives less care and coverage, reduces and dramatically changes medicare.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not sure he said do nothing. I think he said he was comfortable with thme having this position.
    precisely. he, like the Democrats, prefers non-solutions and cowardice that nonetheless comes along with easier electoral politics.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I think this is the critical passage:

    Many Democrats criticized our ruling, arguing that the Ryan proposal would change the program so fundamentally -- revoking its status as a government-run, single-payer system -- that the plan ends Medicare. As Erica Payne, the founder and president of the Agenda Project, put it, "While it is true that a rose by any other name will smell as sweet, a rose with no petals is just a thorny stick."

    But we disagree, because dramatically changing a program is not the same as ending it.

    PolitiFact | Throw-granny-from-the-cliff ad asks what the U.S. would be

    I don't think we need the hyperbole here concerning killing granny. It is enough to say it gives less care and coverage, reduces and dramatically changes medicare.
    that is generally true - it does provide less. but both "plans" do that. the question is not whether we want to provide less, it's how do we want to provide less.

    Do we want individuals and their doctors deciding what to cut?
    Or do we want an unaccountable board of bureaucrats deciding when your care is no longer cost effective for the government?

    Do we want to make the cuts across the board, and those who can make up the difference themselves do so?
    Or do we want to means-test the entitlements to provide more help to the poor and less to the rich?

    Do we want to make the cuts Right Now, and just hope Seniors can keep up?
    Or do we want to give retirees time to plan for the newer system with fewer benefits?

    Do we want to keep the current payout structure, which drives up prices?
    Or do we want to introduce market pressure into the payout structure, which has a dampening effect on prices?




    THESE are the questions at hand. Not whether or not we want to cut medicare expenditures. Nobody wants to cut medicare expenditures. As we have no choice, it's the how that becomes the issue.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-08-11 at 01:09 PM.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    ...the House 2012 Budget does not eliminate the death tax, and it does not eliminate the capital gains tax

    you have confused the 2012 Budget with Ryan's previous work, the Roadmap For America; which has never been passed by the House, but which does contain the elimination of both of those taxes.


    now.


    you can either admit that you were wrong, or you can run away to another thread in a day... or three... and post the same false claim.


    we'll see what you choose.

    well, I guess we know what he chose.

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