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Thread: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Incidentally; I graduated from Virgil I Grissom High back gosh a decade ago. always good to see another Bama Boy on the forums.
    Very cool. I have a checkered past. Twenty years in the Army, started one of the first Internet Service Provider companies in Texas, managed a network engineering company with offices in two cities, then moved into the track that brought me to Alabama. This has to be the world's best kept secret.

    Oops. Did I just type that out loud?

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If the cost of health care is so troubling why don't we just stop paying for it completely? Let's start right after July 4th, Independence Day. No more talk of single payer. No more insurance plans. Just pay a fee for service. Why not buy health care like we buy groceries?
    Because HMO became mandatory under republicans\\
    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    We start the program in 10 years because if we wait any longer the whole damn thing goes down, and takes the rest of the country with it. 10 years is about as long as we can push out without drastic and painful fixes elsewhere, likely to current seniors.
    The reason repubs start 10 years is because they don't want to pay for it. It can easily be made solvent for another 20-30 years (starting today) if money was taken from other programs and feed into it. If Ryan's plan didn't start at 55, seniors wouldn't be up in arms about it.
    Last edited by xpiher; 06-04-11 at 06:49 PM.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Did I say dems?

    Medical cost began to spiral upward when HMOs were made mandatory and therefore common place.
    No you said republicans, its utterly fascetious to blame it on Republicans when Democrats are guiltier over the years and currently blocking all attempts to make cuts in negotiating. IE you are full of bull caca with this statement.

    The medicare and medicaid question was rhetorical, I know they both caused a dramatic increase in medical costs since their inception into the system. Go look at a cost graph, medical costs trended sharply upward after the introduction of medicare and medicaid.

    HMOs Im not sure of but your statement seems contrary to every story I have always read about HMOs and cost control. But I will admit I need to know more before making a thorough statement regarding them. ACOs are being hailed as HMO.2 so Im assuming you dislike those as well?

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The reason repubs start 10 years is because they don't want to pay for it. It can easily be made solvent for another 20-30 years (starting today) if money was taken from other programs and feed into it.
    that is correct. for example, if we got rid of Social Security we could probably prop up Medicare for 20 years; I would be hesitant to say 30.

    but good luck selling that.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    fantastic. the more of the Ryan Plan that we can get attached to this, the better.

    People want to fix the deficit, yet personal income taxes are at an all time low. No one is really serious about fixing the deficit unless they are willing to discuss taxes.

    The party of fools vs. the party of wimps... God help us.
    Last edited by upsideguy; 06-04-11 at 11:25 PM.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Because HMO became mandatory under republicans\\
    Create a law. Change a law. Easy Peasy.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by upsideguy View Post
    People want to fix the deficit, yet personal income taxes are at an all time low. No one is really serious about fixing the deficit unless they are willing to discuss taxes.

    The party of fools vs. the party of wimps... God help us.
    they Ryan plan does discuss taxes. specifically the changes we can make to the code in order to keep revenue neutral while spurring rapid growth.

    if you are thinking of increasing revenue by hiking rates, however.... you might as well forget it.



    as you can see, revenues generally are not a function of tax rates. they are a function of GDP. if you want to increase revenue, therefore, you have to increase GDP. one of the easiest and best ways to do this quickly is to reduce complexity in the tax code - which currently costs us $431 Billion and encourages all manner of non-productive behavior besides.

    Quote Originally Posted by xipher
    Because HMO became mandatory under republicans
    out of curiosity, could you show me where they have done this, because I can't find it.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    that is correct. for example, if we got rid of Social Security we could probably prop up Medicare for 20 years; I would be hesitant to say 30.

    but good luck selling that.
    Or eliminating section of the executive branch that are useless, or closing down military bases over seas (you don't need to fire military personal to do that), o raising taxes slightly etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Create a law. Change a law. Easy Peasy.
    Its actually harder to change a law than it is to pass it because now you have vested interest in the continuation of the law and ignorance. I agree it should be changed, it would have been better if it never passed in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    out of curiosity, could you show me where they have done this, because I can't find it.
    Health Maintenance Organization Act of 1973 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Or eliminating section of the executive branch that are useless, or closing down military bases over seas (you don't need to fire military personal to do that), o raising taxes slightly etc.
    1. raising tax rates won't increase revenue. increasing GDP will increase revenue.
    2. there isn't enough money in the other things you cite to push Medicare back the distance that you are hoping. If we were to pull every single Military member back from overseas, that still would not be nearly enough money to push Medicare back as far as you are hoping.
    3. and why are we talking about just pushing back the crash date? that's what we've been doing for decades - and now that point is here. in 20-30 years do we want to wake up and realize that the only path to survival is to deeply cut or eliminate benefits for current retirees. why not be responsible now - instead of choosing to pass more pain onto our children?

    your link does not seem to say what you claimed. It says employers of over 25 employees have to offer them; not that employees have to take it, nor that medicare patients have to take one.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. raising tax rates won't increase revenue. increasing GDP will increase revenue.
    2. there isn't enough money in the other things you cite to push Medicare back the distance that you are hoping. If we were to pull every single Military member back from overseas, that still would not be nearly enough money to push Medicare back as far as you are hoping.
    3. and why are we talking about just pushing back the crash date? that's what we've been doing for decades - and now that point is here. in 20-30 years do we want to wake up and realize that the only path to survival is to deeply cut or eliminate benefits for current retirees. why not be responsible now - instead of choosing to pass more pain onto our children?
    The delay is needed in order to give people enough time to save money up to pay for their own health care if the goal is to push most of the cost off of the government onto individuals. 10 years is not enough time to save for 20+ years of health care cost.
    Last edited by xpiher; 06-05-11 at 02:52 PM.

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