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Thread: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

  1. #21
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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill;1059539247
    well, they're gonna have to, because if we wait any longer than that, there won't be a Medicare at [i
    all[/i] for them to retire with. and if we wait much longer than now, we won't be able to push it back to the 55 year mark, either. We'll have to start cutting spending on current seniors.
    Wrong. The whole reason it starts at 55 and not 35 is because the repubs want to pay for bonds held for 2025 with medicare money instead of trying to find better sources of revenue and actually fixing the government's budget by getting rid of useless agencies.

    this is incorrect, the CBO did not account for the means testing or the extended support for the poor in its' report. It also completely failed to account for the pressure of markets and choice on costs. These are the same people who overestimated the cost of Medicare D by 41% because they make that error.
    The insurance market is what drives medical prices up in the first place

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Wrong. The whole reason it starts at 55 and not 35 is because the repubs want to pay for bonds held for 2025 with medicare money instead of trying to find better sources of revenue and actually fixing the government's budget by getting rid of useless agencies.



    The insurance market is what drives medical prices up in the first place

    Whoa, whoa, you mean Dems want to get rid of useless government agencies? I think they have be much more of an impediment to that and have been instrumental in adding more agencies through their policies.

    For your second part, didnt medical costs begin to spiral upward when Medicare and Medicaid entered the market? Or is that just coincidence?

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Wrong, its the only one fully fleshed out by a political party. There are a total of 6 fully integrated plans from 6 different think tanks across the spectrum that was paid for by private money. Stossel did a program on it 5/27/11. Couldn't find it the actual video.
    As an aside, I found the Stossel article a day or so after the report came out, when I already read portions of the consolidated report. Stossel is a whining turd.

    http://www.pgpf.org/Issues/Fiscal-Ou...69ECFC626DA220
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-04-11 at 03:56 PM.
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Chappy View Post
    Later in August, as the entire world succumbs to economic depression with millions more Americans unemployed, homeless, without hope and trillions of dollars of capital lost forever, we'll look back at McConnell's words and recognize our error that we assumed the conservative congressional leadership were rational people — they aren't; they would rather bring about the end of the world as we know it, than allow it to continue to exist successfully contrary to their ideology.
    Are you seriously trying to conflate restructuring of Medicare, with the end of the world?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Whoa, whoa, you mean Dems want to get rid of useless government agencies? I think they have be much more of an impediment to that and have been instrumental in adding more agencies through their policies.
    Did I say dems?

    For your second part, didnt medical costs begin to spiral upward when Medicare and Medicaid entered the market? Or is that just coincidence?
    Medical cost began to spiral upward when HMOs were made mandatory and therefore common place.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    As an aside, I found the Stossel article a day or so after the report came out, when I already read portions of the consolidated report. Stossel is a whining turd.
    Based solely on your glowing recommendation I decided to read it. :-)

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Wrong. The whole reason it starts at 55 and not 35 is because the repubs want to pay for bonds held for 2025 with medicare money instead of trying to find better sources of revenue and actually fixing the government's budget by getting rid of useless agencies.
    i have no idea where you got this idea. Republicans specifically repeal the raid on Medicare funds (which, thanks to Obamacare, is current law) in their 2012 budget.

    We start the program in 10 years because if we wait any longer the whole damn thing goes down, and takes the rest of the country with it. 10 years is about as long as we can push out without drastic and painful fixes elsewhere, likely to current seniors.

    The insurance market is what drives medical prices up in the first place
    you are partially correct. it is our unwillingness to allow health insurance to function as health insurance that serves significantly to cause prices to rise as fast as they do.

    but I notice you didnt' answer the point about the false assumptions that feed that number, and their history of poor prediction based upon the inaccuracy of those assumptions.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-04-11 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by OpportunityCost View Post
    Whoa, whoa, you mean Dems want to get rid of useless government agencies? I think they have be much more of an impediment to that and have been instrumental in adding more agencies through their policies.

    For your second part, didnt medical costs begin to spiral upward when Medicare and Medicaid entered the market? Or is that just coincidence?

    yes. the research I've seen indicates that Medicare alone is responsible for about 50% of the costs increases between it's start and 1990.

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    If the cost of health care is so troubling why don't we just stop paying for it completely? Let's start right after July 4th, Independence Day. No more talk of single payer. No more insurance plans. Just pay a fee for service. Why not buy health care like we buy groceries?

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    Re: McConnell: Paul Ryan Medicare Plan 'On The Table' In Debt Ceiling Discussions

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If the cost of health care is so troubling why don't we just stop paying for it completely? Let's start right after July 4th, Independence Day. No more talk of single payer. No more insurance plans. Just pay a fee for service. Why not buy health care like we buy groceries?
    The providers that do that are able to provide healthcare at rates that far undercut current spending.

    There is a clinic in Tennessee, for example, that uses precisely the model you propose - and the prices it charges it's patients are roughly one-half to one-third the general cost under our third-party-payment model.


    Incidentally; I graduated from Virgil I Grissom High back gosh a decade ago. always good to see another Bama Boy on the forums.

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