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Thread: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Yes.... because to be held accountable for a crime, regardless of what that crime is, you have to have the capacity to understand that what you did was a crime and that you are on trial for it.
    One thing I have trouble with the insanity plea is that if he was truly insane wouldn't he have just came marching up to the crime scene waving his gun high and yelling loudly?

    By keeping his weapon hid and not saying anything until he started shooting tells me he knew very well what he was doing was wrong.

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Posting links to biased statistics and acting like you have proven causation is different than actually proving causation Mistress.

    I can do a study on an issue and come up with 10 different results if there are no rules for how the stats are calculated so posting links to a website that fails to explain, in detail, how their numbers were derived is worth about as much as another person’s opinion.
    Show me where these studies are claimed to be biased. You saying you don't understand, or can't be bothered to look up the methodology is not proof of bias. It's not proof of anything. Also, show me a set of statistics that doesn't clearly show higher homocide rates in execution states.

    Like I already said, social cause is unprovable. But unless you want to claim that social cause is completely unknowable (which is foolish) then tell me what the problems are.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-28-11 at 12:16 AM.

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    One thing I have trouble with the insanity plea is that if he was truly insane wouldn't he have just came marching up to the crime scene waving his gun high and yelling loudly?

    By keeping his weapon hid and not saying anything until he started shooting tells me he knew very well what he was doing was wrong.
    Are you aware that people with persecutory delusions are extremely paranoid?

    What does someone do when they're paraniod?

    They hide things.

    His desire to not be caught may stem from believing he's being watched by whomever, or that the people he knows are spies, or from any number of illogical places.

    Being paranoid is not proof of sanity. Especially if he can't even string a sentence together. Then it's practically expected.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-28-11 at 12:16 AM.

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    At least you're honest.

    And to be honest in return, people like you scare me more than people like him. Someone like Loughner is capable of relatively small-scale destruction, but people like that are capable of destroying entire societies.

    Sanity doesn't imply ethics.
    This is rich.

    Why don’t you Google “societies without insane murderers” and throw up some more links to useless statistics to support your fear of people like me “destroying entire societies”?

    Do you think Sharia Law is as evil as you think I am?

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    This is rich.

    Why don’t you Google “societies without insane murderers” and throw up some more links to useless statistics to support your fear of people like me “destroying entire societies”?

    Do you think Sharia Law is as evil as you think I am?
    I never said it was evil. Just scary. Evil is intentional. Scariness doesn't always realize what it's doing.

    Why would I do that? I already know you're going to ignore them. I have already posted sources showing homocide rates are lower in places that don't have the death penalty. Why would I waste any more time with someone who doesn't care what the evidence is?

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Are you aware that people with persecutory delusions are extremely paranoid?

    What does someone do when they're paraniod?

    They hide things.

    His desire to not be caught may stem from believing he's being watched by whomever, or that the people he knows are spies, or from any number of illogical places.

    Being paranoid is not proof of sanity. Especially if he can't even string a sentence together. Then it's practically expected.
    Do you believe one could fake it to save his hide?

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    MNomad
    Simply question. Do you believe people should be held accountable for their actions? Yes/No.

    Is having a different view of the world that is not normal as defined by society an excuse for not being held accountable for ones actions?

    IMO there is no innocent by reason of insanity, there can be guilty by reason of insanity.
    IMO, Loughner (even if treated ) will ever be much use to society. He deserves to be locked up for life (or put to death).

    I only hope the victims and families of those who were killed can find justice and peace.
    "I can explain it to you but, I can't understand it for you"

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I never said it was evil. Just scary. Evil is intentional. Scariness doesn't always realize what it's doing.

    Why would I do that? I already know you're going to ignore them. I have already posted sources showing homocide rates are lower in places that don't have the death penalty. Why would I waste any more time with someone who doesn't care what the evidence is?
    Evidence is not the same as fact. You were arguing causation, and were asked to show causation. What you gave were links to Amnesty International USA, Death Penalty Information Center and an opinion piece on Wikipedia, all of which are blatantly biased on the issue.

    The statistics have no worth because they don’t show the cause and effect you tried to imply they do. Both statistical links reference the same study first off so you have simply posted two opinions on the results of the same data set.

    The same study could have been done to compare murder rates by state to square mile, population, alcohol consumption, population ethnicity or the number of people who play violent video games.

    I don’t care if you get all “scared” when you have to talk to me because I’m not interested in impressing you or anyone on this forum. I like to be a pain in the butt to people like you who think they really think things trough but are really only thinking with their feelings.

    "Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."
    John F. Kennedy
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    It would seem that the constitution is just a god damn piece of paper, to be trotted out when expedient.

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    I can't believe there are people who are shocked by this. The guy is a (now) diagnosed skizophrenic, complete with hallucinations and a complete break with reality. He is clearly insane, and in this country insane people are not competent to stand trial.

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    Re: Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Do you believe one could fake it to save his hide?
    Psychosis? No. It has a very eery quality to it. I've seen a few examples.

    Also, keep in mind these are professionals who are taught how to detect a faker. Also keep in mind that the insanity plea lands in an institution for an unspecified amount of time (but almost always life in cases like this), and many of the facilities are worse than most prisons. Pleaing insanity when you aren't insane is masochistic, if anything.

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