Tuscon gunmen Jared Loughner ruled unfit to stand trial

MistressNomad said:

Are you aware that people with persecutory delusions are extremely paranoid?

What does someone do when they're paraniod?

They hide things.

His desire to not be caught may stem from believing he's being watched by whomever, or that the people he knows are spies, or from any number of illogical places.

Being paranoid is not proof of sanity. Especially if he can't even string a sentence together. Then it's practically expected.

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Do you believe one could fake it to save his hide?

MNomad
Simply question. Do you believe people should be held accountable for their actions? Yes/No.

Is having a different view of the world that is not normal as defined by society an excuse for not being held accountable for ones actions?

IMO there is no innocent by reason of insanity, there can be guilty by reason of insanity.
IMO, Loughner (even if treated ) will ever be much use to society. He deserves to be locked up for life (or put to death).

I only hope the victims and families of those who were killed can find justice and peace.

MistressNomad said:

I never said it was evil. Just scary. Evil is intentional. Scariness doesn't always realize what it's doing.

Why would I do that? I already know you're going to ignore them. I have already posted sources showing homocide rates are lower in places that don't have the death penalty. Why would I waste any more time with someone who doesn't care what the evidence is?

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Evidence is not the same as fact. You were arguing causation, and were asked to show causation. What you gave were links to Amnesty International USA, Death Penalty Information Center and an opinion piece on Wikipedia, all of which are blatantly biased on the issue.

The statistics have no worth because they don’t show the cause and effect you tried to imply they do. Both statistical links reference the same study first off so you have simply posted two opinions on the results of the same data set.

The same study could have been done to compare murder rates by state to square mile, population, alcohol consumption, population ethnicity or the number of people who play violent video games.

I don’t care if you get all “scared” when you have to talk to me because I’m not interested in impressing you or anyone on this forum. I like to be a pain in the butt to people like you who think they really think things trough but are really only thinking with their feelings.

I can't believe there are people who are shocked by this. The guy is a (now) diagnosed skizophrenic, complete with hallucinations and a complete break with reality. He is clearly insane, and in this country insane people are not competent to stand trial.

Crosscheck said:

Do you believe one could fake it to save his hide?

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Psychosis? No. It has a very eery quality to it. I've seen a few examples.

Also, keep in mind these are professionals who are taught how to detect a faker. Also keep in mind that the insanity plea lands in an institution for an unspecified amount of time (but almost always life in cases like this), and many of the facilities are worse than most prisons. Pleaing insanity when you aren't insane is masochistic, if anything.

mike2810 said:

MNomad
Simply question. Do you believe people should be held accountable for their actions? Yes/No.

Is having a different view of the world that is not normal as defined by society an excuse for not being held accountable for ones actions?

IMO there is no innocent by reason of insanity, there can be guilty by reason of insanity.
IMO, Loughner (even if treated ) will ever be much use to society. He deserves to be locked up for life (or put to death).

I only hope the victims and families of those who were killed can find justice and peace.

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It's not a yes/no answer. I believe sane people should be. However, even then, I don't always believe punishment is the appropriate measure. In fact, I think punishment works best in the case of minor crimes. In the case of major crimes it's mostly a question of what is best for society and if rehabilitation is possible. If rehabilitation is not possible, then society's best interest comes first.

Is being completely insane and having no idea what reality is a reason to not be held accountable? He's not a Hindu, or a solipsist. He's insane. Yes, that's a reason to not be held accountable.

DiAnna said:

I can't believe there are people who are shocked by this. The guy is a (now) diagnosed skizophrenic, complete with hallucinations and a complete break with reality. He is clearly insane, and in this country insane people are not competent to stand trial.

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I don’t see why we need to have a trial for this guy. The defense isn’t even contesting his guilt. He is guilty as hell; that is a fact.

His guilt can’t be questioned. We should have executed the POS within a week of his crime.

This happened in my neighborhood. I know the cab driver that drove him to not one, but two different Wal-Marts, then to Safeway. He said he was no crazier than anyone else we get in our cabs. Just a punk kid. This tore my city to shreds, and being a conservative during it was very difficult. I just want this "crazy" to be resolved quickly, so he gets exactly what he deserves, and I hope it as harsh as the law allows. It was pre-meditated murder, took planning on his part, he was sane enough to run around on a quiet weekend morning buying ammo--- he needs to go down, sooner the better.

On the farshot, flipside, bat**** side of things dude pleaded not guilty. Security footage of the incident hasn't been released. I remember conflicting first reports. (dude had a fully auto. Dude had a semi-auto pistol. Dude got tackled right away. Dude ran away) The whole perfect timing thing with the judge being there also. High profile lawyer sorta shoves their way into Laughners defense and distrust exsisting between lawyer and defendant. If the guy is saying he is not guilty then release the video proof to public.

dirtpoorchris said:

On the farshot, flipside, bat**** side of things dude pleaded not guilty. Security footage of the incident hasn't been released. I remember conflicting first reports. (dude had a fully auto. Dude had a semi-auto pistol. Dude got tackled right away. Dude ran away) The whole perfect timing thing with the judge being there also. High profile lawyer sorta shoves their way into Laughners defense and distrust exsisting between lawyer and defendant. If the guy is saying he is not guilty then release the video proof to public.

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and the news reporters get the story correct first time all the time? How much would releasing all the data against Laughner to the public taint the future jury. The more that is released the more things the defense has to poke at.

Not sure what news coverage you had but in AZ, there were plenty of clips of eye witness statements of what they saw including some of the injured. New flash, he did it. Only question was he insane or not at the time of the act.