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Thread: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

  1. #81
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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    History says you're wrong. Every country on earth says you're wrong. Why do you think you're right? You haven't explained it.

    These questions about water are raised, but no study with decent methodology proves true harm. Most of the places these questions are coming from are tinfoil hat-wearers who believe it's a government mind control plot.

    Private industry existing atop goverment infrastructure is the universal rule. It's not badly planned - it's necessary in a fast-paced, highly competitive, highly communicative society. Every company's land, plumbing, communication infrustrcture, roads they use for transport, etc, is all built on a government platform. They can't exist in a meaningful capacity without it because fractured industry and landscape does not work in a developed country. It's not competitive.

    There is no country that I am aware of that is largely de-regulated where poverty levels are low. Please find one and correct me if I am wrong. Qualifications for this include private infrastructure and governance. You can claim it all you want, but history books and the world economy disagree. All evidence says that what happens is that a tiny percentage get rich, and the vast majority become destitutely poor.

    There is balance in all things. Communications companies actually have tons of freedom to innovate and add features and control pricing since they don't have the worry about the ground work. There is nothing wrong with the groundwork. It goes everywhere. So they get to cover as much as of that as they desire to aim for, in whatever way they aim to. The free market decides who is best.

    And here's where we get to the overarching point. When the basics, the questions of survival, are taken care of, the freedom for human innovation is limitless. People don't have to spend all day worrying about how they're going to eat, or if they'll freeze to death at night (though unfortunately some still do in America - funnily enough, the rate of this depth of poverty is lower in more regulated countries).

    My goal post has not move. I have been consistently rebutting your basless and fanciful claims. You say you think it will just be utopia (without giving me any reason other than that you think it), yet I can't think of a single example in history of your kind of government leading to that. And certainly not in modern history where competitiveness depends on connectivity and assured thresholds of education.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What I support has never been done and you comparing it to a third world country is not accurate.
    The reality is that individuals who satisfy their lower order needs e.g., survival, aspire toward progressively higher order ones. That is human nature. It is no accident that societies that migrate from little more than an existential struggle also evolve toward policies whose goals extend beyond mere survival. It is no accident that the arrangement you suggest has never been implemented.

    Societies have concluded that government should provide certain social welfare functions, the major differences being how extensive (can be a problem if they grow to unsustainable levels financially and in terms of administration) and in what fashion (can also be a problem e.g., the pay-as-you go design is inherently flawed in the face of demographic shift toward a relatively older population). Fiscal consolidation will need to address both aspects of the nation's social welfare system. It almost certainly will not eliminate it.

    A similar situation exists with rspect to foreign policy. As a nation's power grows (political, economic, and military), especially in a world that is becoming ever more interconnected (trade, capital, information flows), it has a growing number of overseas interests and also has international allies. While it must be careful to avoid overreach, abdication (even non-interventionism aka "soft isolationism" that embraces trade, but nothing else in foreign policy) also undermines its interests and security. It must find a careful balance based on a combination of its ideals, critical interests, and allies.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    Just so you guys don't think I'm running away, I'm posting to tell you I will come back to respond later tonight. For now, I have to go to work. See you later.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    See you soon.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Because people like you believed it was a death panel. You believed it because it was repeated over and over and over again despite being proven to be false. Hell, it wasn't even something that would be done "by a government agency" like you described in this thread, but you still believe that to be true. It was a conversation between you and your doctor, the same way people already do it. The only change is that the bill would have allowed medicare to foot the bill for that consultation with your doctor. If you chose to get it. It wasn't even mandatory.
    Ok what exactly is end of life counciling then...

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Ok what exactly is end of life counciling then...
    Discussions on pain management, hospice, living wills, etc. These discussions already happen. The provision was to cover the expense.

    Wanna hear something funny?
    GOP Supported End-of-Life Counseling in 2003 Medicare Bill | Swampland

    The link the article takes you to the GOP-supported bill to do basically the same thing as Obama was proposing that got labeled "the death panel."
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-26-11 at 09:08 AM.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Discussions on pain management, hospice, living wills, etc. These discussions already happen. The provision was to cover the expense.

    Wanna hear something funny?
    GOP Supported End-of-Life Counseling in 2003 Medicare Bill | Swampland

    The link the article takes you to the GOP-supported bill to do basically the same thing as Obama was proposing that got labeled "the death panel."
    IMO, when it comes to Medicare's fiscal challenges, there will need to be an open and honest debate concerning the program's benefit structure, copayments, eligibility criteria (i.e., age, possible means testing, etc.). At the same time, policy makers will need to recognize that a significant degree of Medicare's problems (and also the broader issue of health care access) are the result of larger structural problems in the nation's health care system itself, specifically the industry's excessive cost growth problem that already provides substantive rationing of care. Health care expenditures cannot increase at a multiple of nominal GDP indefinitely. Ultimately, foreigners will stop subsizing a growing share of U.S. health care via channels such as lending to the federal government, financing the current account deficit, etc. Hospitals, in particular, are a leading generator of health inflation, with the price of hospital services increasing, on average, more than twice the rate of consumer prices (a more than decade-long trend that persists).

    A fairly large menu of reform options exists, both on the demand and supply side, even as demand for many medical services is relatively inelastic. The incentive structure concerning technology procurement based on a cost effectiveness assessment (technology purchased in its infancy is typically far more expensive than later on and its benefits are marginally better than those of alternatives based on extensive research in disruptive technologies) will need to be addressed. Today, the U.S. does not utilize cost effectiveness analysis in its reimbursement and tax policies related to the deployment of new technologies. Yet, the IMF has found that inefficient technology utilization may account for up to half of medical care inflation in the U.S. Patient cost-sharing will also need to be increased (that's where means-testing might have to play a role to balance cost recovery against access to medical care). Supply side approaches e.g., making it far easier for international medical institutions and foreign medical practioners to provide services in the U.S., will also need to be considered even if established interests try to maintain an artificial ceiling on suppliers of such services. Those artificial ceilings inhibit competition and undermine consumer welfare. Drug reimportation should also be permitted. Current law that precludes what would amount to an arbitrage opportunity due to price disparities across borders, is also anti-competitive. Medicare, like any other large entity, should use the leverage associated with its size to negotiate volume discounts and other savings with suppliers of medical services, with the range of suppliers being expanded to include international suppliers.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    Basically what this vote shows is that old folks want the money the voted themselves from our pockets, and our children's futures be damned.

    **** the old people, they created this mess. They sat around and did nothing while these programs just become more and more unsustainable, and now they demand to get what they were promised in return for their votes.

    It's time to take the country back from the brink, the brink these "old folks" made happen.
    "Screw the old people". You gotta love those compassionate conservatives.


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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    +1 Screw the old people.

    Intergenerational justice time. Those old bastards have been hogging the good life for decades and now they want to party forever and ever, with cable and internet. I say we put 'em ta work.

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    Re: Democrat scores upset in Medicare-focused House race

    if something isn't done imminently to restructure medicare it will very soon cease to exist in its present form

    it's been two years since the party in power produced a budget in the united states senate and by all accounts it doesn't look like it's gonna deliver this year either

    do nothing and medicare will die

    harry reid---let's do nothing

    leadership?

    party on, pals

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