Page 9 of 15 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 143

Thread: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

  1. #81
    Global Moderator
    Rage More!
    Your Star's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Georgia
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Liberal
    Posts
    26,362

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's perfectly fine with me.

    I just don't think this genderless baby experiment will yield anything.
    Most boys act like boys because they are boys, most girls act like girls because they are girls.

    Sometimes, some people don't and that's fine but I don't think we should change minor social norms in language because of it.
    There are languages that use less gender references than ours and there are some that use more, yet there is no big difference in gender practices around the world.
    Oh I agree, this experiment wont' do anything really but shock other people. The only problem I could see is if the child wants to express his/her gender and the parents suppress it.

    Oh, and speaking of language, I remember getting into an argument one time with a feminist who spelled woman, womyn, because having man in woman was degrading Now that is delusional
    Eat me, drink me, love me;
    Laura make much of me

  2. #82
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    18,125

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    That's perfectly fine with me.

    I just don't think this genderless baby experiment will yield anything.
    Most boys act like boys because they are boys, most girls act like girls because they are girls.

    Sometimes, some people don't and that's fine but I don't think we should change minor social norms in language because of it.
    There are languages that use less gender references than ours and there are some that use more, yet there is no big difference in gender practices around the world.
    I don't know why you are calling it an "experiment". All the parents have done is chosen not to reveal to other people what the sex of their child is. They hope the child will express its natural gender without having to impose it via socialization, which if you are right, will be the gender that matches its sex.

  3. #83
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It depends on where they end it. They could succeed in ensuring that if their child might suffer from GID, that the child would more easily accept that they can choose to live the role of the the gender that is not the same as the sex they were born as.

    Many transgendered people suffer from GID because they don't understand why they want to dress in the clothes of the opposite sex or act like a person of the opposite sex, especially men. Many men hide the fact that they would rather be like women. Some women might too, but, as was earlier pointed out, it is much easier for a woman to be socially accepted for living a man's life than it is for a man to be socially accepted for living a woman's life, even to the point where most people just assume that any crossdressing man must be a submissive homosexual (eventhough this is not true, especially since a good percentage of male crossdressers and transgenders are attracted to women). Most people are raised in a manner that set up expectations for how they were supposed to dress and act, and even for what they were supposed to like, because of the sex they were born as.

    For example, I never liked Barbies. My Barbie dolls always became conscripted soldiers in the wars that my brother and I would play in. I begged my parents for GI Joes growing up, but they always went to my brothers because even my parents would tend to forget that I had asked for some when they bought them for my brothers for Christmas. It probably wasn't even a conscious choice to not give me any of the GI Joes, but rather something that stemmed from it being more normal for boys to ask for Joes than girls. By the time I was 9, I was only asking my parents for books and clothes, but no toys because I knew that I wouldn't get what I wanted anyway, which was boys' toys.

    And I know that my father is embarrassed that he likes to wear women's night gowns. I'm pretty sure that my father has no desire to actually be a woman, but he does like to wear some women's clothes and he is ashamed of this because of the way that he feels that some people would judge him for wearing them.

    That is where much of GID comes from, especially for those who do not feel a need to actually change their physical sex. There disorder stems from them not being able to figure out why they want to look like or act like the opposite sex that they were born as, adopt those characteristics that society reserves for the opposite gender.

    Someone who is raised without feeling that it is necessary to like pink or wear suits or dresses, but not the other, is less likely to have such feelings of dismay if they decide that they would prefer to wear dresses over suits or only wear pink or they would rather be involved with aggressive sports than do dance or theater than someone who was raised in a specific gender role.
    If that were the case, then that would be great but I don't believe that there is any early detection method of identifying GID.

    Doing so, when the probability is less than 1% of a chance occurrence seems not wise.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  4. #84
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I don't know why you are calling it an "experiment". All the parents have done is chosen not to reveal to other people what the sex of their child is. They hope the child will express its natural gender without having to impose it via socialization, which if you are right, will be the gender that matches its sex.
    It is an experiment.
    They have no real idea that it will do anything, it's only based of their believe that gender is a social construct.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  5. #85
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:48 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,725

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Funny, I thought the baby's name was "Storm".
    Yes, that's its name alright.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  6. #86
    Bohemian Revolutionary
    Demon of Light's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Last Seen
    03-07-17 @ 12:25 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    5,095

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    You're right. I simply presented it as an option for someone who said they were uncomfortable saying "it," since they don't know the sex or gender of the child. Its purpose is for the sake of conversation.
    Plus it is useful to have a gender-neutral pronoun that does not dehumanize someone. I tire of saying "him or her" and I am too conscientious about proper grammar to use "them" all of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    GID.info | Gender Identity Disorder Information

    Transsexual differences caught on brain scan - life - 26 January 2011 - New Scientist

    The second link in particular talks about brain differences in men and women, and how these difference coincides with the desired gender of a transsexual.
    I have seen the arguments before and read them well enough to realize the conclusions amount to fallacious "correlation equals causation" arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    This is a really excellent point. Transgendered people act in a way commonly expected of the opposite sex, they don't challenge gender roles, they a actually conform to them. Bravo. I've learned something.
    Exactly. While any act against gender roles is a slight to the most hardline sexist it is more acceptable for an effeminate man to be a homosexual or to lop off his penis than embrace "femininity" while remaining straight. A cross-dressing homosexual is not really rocking the boat. A heterosexual cross-dresser destroys everything society dictates is the proper order of things.

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Biology puts in place how certain clothes look on certain people and how sensitive certain people are, but there is nothing in nature that says that every person of a certain sex should wear only certain clothes or that every person of a certain sex should be at this X amount of sensitivity. Society sets those limits.
    You really shouldn't say that because it leads people to the mistaken believe that presence in nature is the same as being innate. Animals have social constructs too. Someone who has ever spent much time with more than one dog can tell you they have their own unique personalities and society is nothing more than the coalescence of numerous individual personalities into a single collective personality.
    "For what is Evil but Good-tortured by its own hunger and thirst?"
    - Khalil Gibran

  7. #87
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    If that were the case, then that would be great but I don't believe that there is any early detection method of identifying GID.

    Doing so, when the probability is less than 1% of a chance occurrence seems not wise.
    But there isn't anything to indicate that these parents are going to do anything that will hurt their child's gender identity. It seems like they are trying to see which identity the child naturally identifies with, while influencing that as little as possible.

    I am the first person to admit that I do tend to focus my boys' identity to being boys, including buying them cars and trucks and other toys that are for boys and not buying them dolls or toys that are meant for girls. I don't feel that I am hurting my boys in doing this but it could give them a false sense that if they would prefer to play with dolls or other "girl" toys, that I might not approve of their choice. Hopefully, my husband and I both are willing to accept that it isn't a big deal if our boys want to own/play with dolls. But I also can see these parents as having a much easier time in dealing with whatever toys their child wishes to play with, no matter which sex the child is or what gender the toys are meant for.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #88
    Professor xpiher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-23-12 @ 10:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,993

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by Councilman View Post
    This is easy. The potential for psychological damage is too great to risk this nonsense on a child.

    If it's a boy and is treated like a girl of vise versa, or if they are dressed like David Bowie there is a risk of a gender identity crisis.
    What sociological damage?

  9. #89
    Guru
    Lakryte's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    California
    Last Seen
    06-02-17 @ 01:39 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    2,982

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    1. Let the parents do what they want so long as the child is not being harmed (which I doubt it is)
    2. The kid is going to figure out sooner or later what he or she is.
    3. This is stupid.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

  10. #90
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: 'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    But there isn't anything to indicate that these parents are going to do anything that will hurt their child's gender identity. It seems like they are trying to see which identity the child naturally identifies with, while influencing that as little as possible.
    As in your brothers example, he wasn't coached, that is who he really was.
    All the prompting to be more boyish was for naught.


    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I am the first person to admit that I do tend to focus my boys' identity to being boys, including buying them cars and trucks and other toys that are for boys and not buying them dolls or toys that are meant for girls. I don't feel that I am hurting my boys in doing this but it could give them a false sense that if they would prefer to play with dolls or other "girl" toys, that I might not approve of their choice. Hopefully, my husband and I both are willing to accept that it isn't a big deal if our boys want to own/play with dolls. But I also can see these parents as having a much easier time in dealing with whatever toys their child wishes to play with, no matter which sex the child is or what gender the toys are meant for.
    I'm convinced that you're a good parent and that if your child didn't want trucks or what have you, you'd be more than understanding in providing some toys he does want.

    Which is what I think most parents should do.
    Expect your kids to act their gender.
    If they don't, be understanding and accommodate them.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

Page 9 of 15 FirstFirst ... 7891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •