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'Genderless' Child Ignites Firestorm in Canada

Sure some is learned, but I think it is biological.
We humans are communal, we have long childhoods for a reason, to pass on successful information to new generations from the older.
It's a biological development, to continue human survival.

Not all gender role are biological, though. Cultural and historical difference play a part. For example, "typical" male dress vs. "typical" female dress. I don't see this as being innate, as, from an evolutionary standpoint, clothing is not biological. What is typical dress for each gender is a social construct, one that has varied historically and across cultures. I think that there is some biology in gender roles... physical differences between the genders probably has a bit to do with that. But there are some that are purely societal.
 
Not all gender role are biological, though. Cultural and historical difference play a part. For example, "typical" male dress vs. "typical" female dress. I don't see this as being innate, as, from an evolutionary standpoint, clothing is not biological. What is typical dress for each gender is a social construct, one that has varied historically and across cultures. I think that there is some biology in gender roles... physical differences between the genders probably has a bit to do with that. But there are some that are purely societal.

Not that part, the specifics of each gender role that adults select to follow themselves.

I think a child learns roles from their identified gender because they are preprogrammed to look towards learning those roles from the adult with the same gender.
It's not a operative choice, but a biological selection to learn those gender roles.
Does that make sense?
 
Not that part, the specifics of each gender role that adults select to follow themselves.

I think a child learns roles from their identified gender because they are preprogrammed to look towards learning those roles from the adult with the same gender.
It's not a operative choice, but a biological selection to learn those gender roles.
Does that make sense?

I understand what you are saying. I don't agree though, since gender roles tend to be more fluid and changable these days. Some, I believe are biological. Some, I believe are purely societal. And some of these societal roles are not biologically driven, but more operative... or if they are innate, they have nothing to do with gender.
 
I understand what you are saying. I don't agree though, since gender roles tend to be more fluid and changable these days. Some, I believe are biological. Some, I believe are purely societal. And some of these societal roles are not biologically driven, but more operative... or if they are innate, they have nothing to do with gender.

Wait, so you're telling me woman aren't MEANT to be in the kitchen the whole time? :fueltofir
 
Why are they so concerned a child genitilia? We have a name for that I think.
 
I don't see how that's bad at all. There's a lot of senseless, shaming baggage that goes along with believing whatever a society tells you to. It's also a poor recipe for intellectual growth.

May not be popular, but that doesn't make it wrong.

It's the notion that they are judging the rest of us (who may disagree with them, but think the whole controversy is overrated) and cry foul when people judge them.
 
This is just plain sick, and disturbing. These people must trying to get attention while claiming their not. I can think of no logical explaination, for this.

I have to wonder if there may some long term damage to the child that might come from this.

By the way, it looks like a little boy to me.

Only American right wingers would find such a thing horrible.... so much for allowing people to live their lives eh... big government meddling in business conservative style!

Funny how there is no outcry from the same people over the paedophile Christian cults in the US... hypocrites.
 
:shrug: It'll only last until the kid starts interacting with other kids, unless they isolate the kid, then it'll last until puberty.
 
That's it! I'm calling for a world-wide ban on yellow clothing for infants.
 
:shrug: It'll only last until the kid starts interacting with other kids, unless they isolate the kid, then it'll last until puberty.

They have already had to isolate their oldest son. He was supposed to go to school this year, but parents are keeping him out to provide "unschooling". :roll: I've changed my mind on this, these parents are whack jobs. The mom (wonder why she doesn't object to being referred to in such a gender specific way) especially looks unhinged.
 
It's the notion that they are judging the rest of us (who may disagree with them, but think the whole controversy is overrated) and cry foul when people judge them.

Look at what some people here think of her. Or the people writing the Fox article think of her.

We're constantly judging others. And "obnoxious" is a pretty gentle judgement, compared to some that's being thrown her way right now.
 
Demon of Light,

You don't think it's interesting that transsexuals specifically have opposite-sex brain markers? It isn't really claiming to know the cause - just that we see this in transsexual people.

I think it is interesting, but I do not think it indicates a biological cause. Unfortunately, a lot of lay people do not seem to be sufficiently knowledgeable to understand that brain development occurs well after birth and as such a person who thinks of his or herself as a different gender would likely develop a similar brain structure.

Like I said it amounts to a correlation equals causation argument. That pretty much sums up the entire field of sociobiology and its predecessor, eugenics.

Actually, primates exhibit gender roles similar to those of humans. Studies have been conducted where gender specific toys (toys with wheels, dolls, etc.) have been given to young chimps. The females tended to play with all the toys but the males exhibited greater interest in the wheeled toys.

Nothing these people have done or said would contradict the notion that gender is both biologically influenced and socially influenced. They have simply chosen not to let society influence the child and to let biology run its course. You are making groundless assumptions.

This is why people should stop using the term "in nature" because then you have arguments like this that act like all animals that are not human do not have social constructs of their own.
 
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That still doesn't explain the second example I gave of androgen insensitive chromosomal males. Regardless of whether they are assigned male or female or not assigned at all, they almost always identify female.
 
I understand what you are saying. I don't agree though, since gender roles tend to be more fluid and changable these days. Some, I believe are biological. Some, I believe are purely societal. And some of these societal roles are not biologically driven, but more operative... or if they are innate, they have nothing to do with gender.

I wasn't making myself clear on what I meant.

For example.
A male child that has the mental gender of male, will instinctively look towards the behavior of other males, to learn how to practice his gender.
The practices of those males can be societal and are somewhat fluid based on the adult but the child looking to those males is entirely biologically driven.
 
Parents keep child's gender under wraps

Parents keep child’s gender under wraps - Yahoo! News

Yahoo said:
When many couples have a baby, they send out an email to family and friends that fills them in on the key details: name, gender, birth weight, that sort of thing. (You know the drill: "Both Mom and little Ethan are doing great!")

But the email sent recently by Kathy Witterick and David Stocker of Toronto, Canada to announce the birth of their baby, Storm, was missing one important piece of information. "We've decided not to share Storm's sex for now--a tribute to freedom and choice in place of limitation, a stand up to what the world could become in Storm's lifetime (a more progressive place? ...)," it said.

The headline isn't accurate. It's the child sex that's being kept a secret, not the gender. The baby's gender - which is psychological - is not yet known until it begins to express itself more.

I think it's an interesting idea. As soon as we assume that the sex of male or female means that the gender is male or female, we start applying all of these norms to the baby. Like boys wear blue and girls wear pink, or girls play with barbies and boys play with GI joes.

This baby is now free to be what it wants to be without people telling it that it can't do something based on its sex. I'm wondering though what's going to happen once school approaches. Hopefully these parents can go the private school route.
 
Re: Parents keep child's gender under wraps

Parents keep child’s gender under wraps - Yahoo! News



The headline isn't accurate. It's the child sex that's being kept a secret, not the gender. The baby's gender - which is psychological - is not yet known until it begins to express itself more.

I think it's an interesting idea. As soon as we assume that the sex of male or female means that the gender is male or female, we start applying all of these norms to the baby. Like boys wear blue and girls wear pink, or girls play with barbies and boys play with GI joes.

This baby is now free to be what it wants to be without people telling it that it can't do something based on its sex. I'm wondering though what's going to happen once school approaches. Hopefully these parents can go the private school route.

Dup thread, but I'm not quite sure how private school will be any better than public school. The child will be forced the wear a uniform specific to its' physical gender, and if it is confused because of the parents' choice in discouraging gender identity it could lead to further issues.
 
Re: Parents keep child's gender under wraps

Dup thread, but I'm not quite sure how private school will be any better than public school. The child will be forced the wear a uniform specific to its' physical gender, and if it is confused because of the parents' choice in discouraging gender identity it could lead to further issues.

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Threads merged. When you see a dupe thread, please report it so we can get it taken care of promptly.
 
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