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Casey Anthony Trial's Surprise

Kali said:
How do you explain the duct tape over the childs mouth if she so called drown? I have no doubt at all that Casey killed that little girl:( I do think the whole family is off and suspect that Casey's dad did sexually abuse her in her childhood. That could explain why she is such a messed up person. And Cindy? I suspect she ignored and looked over a lot.
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How do YOU explain it? Duct tape doesn't cause death. Still doesn't PROVE, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that her mother killed her. Can you put duct tape on a dead childs mouth? Sure can. Her behavior immediately following the child going missing doesn't indicate anything either. My aunt was laughing and having a party after her husband passed away. Did she kill him? Of course not. People grieve in different ways. Again, no proof, next piece of evidence.....

And gladiator, your incestuous families link is very anti-man and also not complete. All they even speak of is incest between a dad and his daughter where incest between a mom and her son is also very common in our society as well as brother-sister. It assumes a lot of stuff that isn't provable.

Basically, that link is borderline crap, dude.
 
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MaggieD said:
Defense Claims Caylee Died of Accidental Drowning




This makes me sick. I believe her defense attornies said to her: "We don't want you to tell us what happened if you don't want to Casey. But you've got to have an explanation for what happened here if we're to mount a defense. Now! What could have happened??" Or maybe they concocted it for her and asked her with a meaningful look, "Is that what happened Casey??"

Fox just said that the father was in on it and helped her with the cover-up...that her body was found by that meter man weeks before he turned it in and he was holding on to it hoping for a reward.

The animals at the zoo are on parade. It makes me positively sick.

Casey Anthony Trial Opens with Shocking Claims : People.com
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I know I'll get raked over the coals for this, but I think this case is being overly sensationalized. I've listened to her speaking to her parents in jail, and I just see an emotional girl whose coming unglued.

MHO is Casey didn't intentionally kill the child. Caylee looks very happy in all the videos I've seen. She doesnot look abused, and if she had been, somebody would have known about it, especially the grandparents, or the brother.

The defense attorney is trying to create a lot of doubt with lies, but this is what defense attorneys do.

Caylee may have caused her own death in some way when Casey wasn't paying attention. I know from having my own two kids they do many things that can get them killed, and the parent isn't being negligent. Depends a lot on how precocious the kids are. I believe the problem was Casey panicked, and did some crazy stuff, started making up stories, and that's why she's on trial for her life. They are saying she's a pathological liar, but she just got caught up in her lies. I'd want to know if she was a liar her whole life, but most people lie here and there, many of us do it everyday. It depends on why we're doing it. Half truths are also lies, like telling someone they look good when you don't think they do.

One thing though that bugs me is the duct tape. Was this put on before death, or after? Don't know why you'd do that after death. Seems very odd. This is puzzling, but because the evidence is weak, I don't see how a jury can go for life. This girl is too young to spend her life in jail.

From what evidence they have, which isn't much, Casey should get Manslaughter. Lying isn't enough to get you life, or the death penalty in MO.
 
Very well stated, MM. I agree with you about every single point you made.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
I know I'll get raked over the coals for this, but I think this case is being overly sensationalized. I've listened to her speaking to her parents in jail, and I just see an emotional girl whose coming unglued.

MHO is Casey didn't intentionally kill the child. Caylee looks very happy in all the videos I've seen. She doesnot look abused, and if she had been, somebody would have known about it, especially the grandparents, or the brother.
The defense attorney is trying to create a lot of doubt with lies, but this is what defense attorneys do.

Caylee may have caused her own death in some way when Casey wasn't paying attention. I know from having my own two kids they do many things that can get them killed, and the parent isn't being negligent. Depends a lot on how precocious the kids are. I believe the problem was Casey panicked, and did some crazy stuff, started making up stories, and that's why she's on trial for her life. They are saying she's a pathological liar, but she just got caught up in her lies. I'd want to know if she was a liar her whole life, but most people lie here and there, many of us do it everyday. It depends on why we're doing it. Half truths are also lies, like telling someone they look good when you don't think they do.

One thing though that bugs me is the duct tape. Was this put on before death, or after? Don't know why you'd do that after death. Seems very odd. This is puzzling, but because the evidence is weak, I don't see how a jury can go for life. This girl is too young to spend her life in jail.

From what evidence they have, which isn't much, Casey should get Manslaughter. Lying isn't enough to get you life, or the death penalty in MO.
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The only thing I disagree with is the bolded statement. Abuse is cyclical and generational. If Caylee was abused it is extremely likely that Casey was also abused. If so, I doubt the parents or brother would have thought anything was wrong with Casey's treatment of her daughter. Those who would have noticed abuse are the friends who saw Casey interact with her daughter. They've all testified that she was a doting, loving mother. Somebody else in the thread pointed out that this behavior COULD have been an act, though...so there's that.
 
Thank you for your kind response. MHO is it's hard to be "doting" all the time, in front of everyone, if you normally aren't. Just MO.

Even when Casey was very emotional speaking to her parents she remained softspoken to me. She raised her voice, but not the way most people do when angry. Just my thoughts.
 
tessaesque said:
The only thing I disagree with is the bolded statement. Abuse is cyclical and generational. If Caylee was abused it is extremely likely that Casey was also abused. If so, I doubt the parents or brother would have thought anything was wrong with Casey's treatment of her daughter. Those who would have noticed abuse are the friends who saw Casey interact with her daughter. They've all testified that she was a doting, loving mother. Somebody else in the thread pointed out that this behavior COULD have been an act, though...so there's that.
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Yep, and none of that has anything to do with the little girls death. Which nobody can prove why she died, so I hope the mom walks, not guilty of murder.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
I know I'll get raked over the coals for this, but I think this case is being overly sensationalized. I've listened to her speaking to her parents in jail, and I just see an emotional girl whose coming unglued.

MHO is Casey didn't intentionally kill the child. Caylee looks very happy in all the videos I've seen. She doesnot look abused, and if she had been, somebody would have known about it, especially the grandparents, or the brother.

The defense attorney is trying to create a lot of doubt with lies, but this is what defense attorneys do.

Caylee may have caused her own death in some way when Casey wasn't paying attention. I know from having my own two kids they do many things that can get them killed, and the parent isn't being negligent. Depends a lot on how precocious the kids are. I believe the problem was Casey panicked, and did some crazy stuff, started making up stories, and that's why she's on trial for her life. They are saying she's a pathological liar, but she just got caught up in her lies. I'd want to know if she was a liar her whole life, but most people lie here and there, many of us do it everyday. It depends on why we're doing it. Half truths are also lies, like telling someone they look good when you don't think they do.

One thing though that bugs me is the duct tape. Was this put on before death, or after? Don't know why you'd do that after death. Seems very odd. This is puzzling, but because the evidence is weak, I don't see how a jury can go for life. This girl is too young to spend her life in jail.

From what evidence they have, which isn't much, Casey should get Manslaughter. Lying isn't enough to get you life, or the death penalty in MO.
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The Following Is My Personal Opinions....

From all of the videos and voice recorded conversations... I would have to disagree with you as to your perceptions of her being a caring, loving mother... or even her having competency as a mother.

My observation is...she has repeated frame herself as the victim..."not her daughter". She constantly complains that this situation has ruined "her life". She blames "them - they - that" for her dilemma. That type of behavior is called, "Jailhouse Mentality". People who are on death row will go to their grave denying they committed a horrible crime and blame everybody for his or her behaviors.

Even if she had been "severely abused herself", there's been no psychological diagnoses or testimony as to her being incapable of known the difference between right and wrong.

Her affect (observable emotional behaviors) has been flat in every respect. When she does get upset, it's because nearly always it has to do with issues regarding her...not her daughter.

Friends that testify for her...do you have any idea about about their relationship with Casey or their personal backgrounds? Friends often prop up lies or lie themselves.

Her failure to report her child missing for 31 days has all to do about her concern for her own welfare and not that of her child's.
 
Loose Feather said:
I do believe there was sex abuse by the bro. Unsure of dad. Dad was getting nooky from stranger pretending he was working. But if casey didnt like it she would have got out of there with the female daughter. Caylee didnt have boobs yet so there is no way she can claim daddy and bro were doing Caylee
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None of that matters to me.

None of that has anything to do with the death of a child unless the child was killed directly related to incest, molestation - etc.

But what happened to Mom when she was 5 or 15 does NOT matter at all to me. Just because someone had a ****ed up life does NOT mean they are rendered unable to make sound decisions and contrain their emotions.

I do, though, believe that a bunch of twisted **** happened - they're one hell of a ****ed up family and have earned all their misery.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
None of that matters to me.

None of that has anything to do with the death of a child unless the child was killed directly related to incest, molestation - etc.

But what happened to Mom when she was 5 or 15 does NOT matter at all to me. Just because someone had a ****ed up life does NOT mean they are rendered unable to make sound decisions and contrain their emotions.I do, though, believe that a bunch of twisted **** happened - they're one hell of a ****ed up family and have earned all their misery.
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Sometimes it does. I don't know what she did or whether she killed her daughter. I don't know what kind of life her daughter lived before she died. But if something traumatic happened to Casey as a child it's likely possible she developed sociopathtic tendancies (lack of emotional connection, inability to empathetize, etc) or other coping mechanisms that have affected her ability to function normally.
 
tessaesque said:
Sometimes it does. I don't know what she did or whether she killed her daughter. I don't know what kind of life her daughter lived before she died. But if something traumatic happened to Casey as a child it's likely possible she developed sociopathtic tendancies (lack of emotional connection, inability to empathetize, etc) or other coping mechanisms that have affected her ability to function normally.
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I agree with Tessa. And there will have to be evidence produced that she has developed a chronic sociopathic disorder...otherwise she'll be convicted and sentenced "to death".

Her defense is based on sexual abuse by her father from age 8. But if that's a fact, there are very viable "forensic" methods to determine the validity of that claim. I say this because sexual abuse is often claimed in trials. And it isn't dismissed or taken lightly, but there have been a variety of tools created to assess the credibility of these type claims. It will come out if its true. And if it does, then daddy is going bye-bye. Then that leads to her mom's credibility. It could also come out that mom was aware of the abuse...and did nothing. That would be a whole new can of legal worms.

What I want to see happen is Casey files formal charges against her father.

A sexual allegation in the state of Florida is a huge. There is no statute of limitations and if a person is convicted of this crime, they will never see the light of day. They will get life without parole. In fact, they can get many life sentences without parole, depending on how many counts are leveled against them.

~~~Snip~~~

If George Anthony is accused and tried for sexually molesting Casey, he could easily follow the same fate. So Mark Lippman, the Anthony’s defense lawyer , filed a motion if to force Jose Baez to proffer to the court how he believes he will establish the allegation George molested Casey to support his defense theory.

If Casey or someone who knows of this allegation doesn’t get up on the stand and attest to this, then Judge Perry can refuse to allow Baez to ask questions about George’s alleged sexual misconduct towards Casey . That means that their defense of Casey is pretty much over. Casey Anthony’ Sex Abuse Claim Against Father May Force Her On The Stand
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tessaesque said:
Sometimes it does. I don't know what she did or whether she killed her daughter. I don't know what kind of life her daughter lived before she died. But if something traumatic happened to Casey as a child it's likely possible she developed sociopathtic tendancies (lack of emotional connection, inability to empathetize, etc) or other coping mechanisms that have affected her ability to function normally.
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One of the most curious questions I'd like to have answered is whether sociopaths are born or made. I believe it's a bit of both. However, if the science shows that it leans one way or the other, could it somehow lessen the degree of culpability and responsibility on the part of the offender?
 
StillBallin75 said:
One of the most curious questions I'd like to have answered is whether sociopaths are born or made. I believe it's a bit of both. However, if the science shows that it leans one way or the other, could it somehow lessen the degree of culpability and responsibility on the part of the offender?
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I dunno, but the mentality of a sociopath is incredibly intriguing. They understand compelling emotion, but they don't generally feel compelling emotion. They're able to mimic quite well without ever grasping the underlying drives.
 
tessaesque said:
I dunno, but the mentality of a sociopath is incredibly intriguing. They understand compelling emotion, but they don't generally feel compelling emotion. They're able to mimic quite well without ever grasping the underlying drives.
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I think this is a better description for psychopaths. I might be wrong, but iirc sociopaths are generally more disorganized. Not sure which applies to Casey Anthony more, though.

Sociopath vs. Psychopath: What’s the Difference? | Helping Psychology
 
StillBallin75 said:
One of the most curious questions I'd like to have answered is whether sociopaths are born or made. I believe it's a bit of both. However, if the science shows that it leans one way or the other, could it somehow lessen the degree of culpability and responsibility on the part of the offender?
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Most sociopaths are made, that is, created by their environment; although certain people are more predisposed to beings sociopaths than others. For example, some people recover from trauma easier than others. Those people are more resilient and are thus less likely to develop mental problems as a result. People who recover slowly from trauma, mental or otherwise, are more likely to have mental problems. That part is genetic. The environment determines the rest.

tessaesque said:
I dunno, but the mentality of a sociopath is incredibly intriguing. They understand compelling emotion, but they don't generally feel compelling emotion. They're able to mimic quite well without ever grasping the underlying drives.
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Exactly. A sociopath can have an intellectual understand of emotions, but they cannot feel them. They are very charming much of the time because they have to over compensate for what they are.

Gladiator said:
The extent of abuse in US families is difficult to ascertain, because it is generally honorable to keep family secrets.

The extent and nature of abuse to Casey Anthony may be difficult to understand, since at least Casey has been established as creative with the truth.

Should Casey be spared the death penalty if she claims she was abused, to some extent, and that she has upset feelings as a result of the abuse, that clouded her judgement as a mother?




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No. Abuse shouldn't spare her from the death penalty if she is convicted. However, I doubt she will receive the death penalty or even life for this.
 
evanescence said:
Most sociopaths are made, that is, created by their environment; although certain people are more predisposed to beings sociopaths than others. For example, some people recover from trauma easier than others. Those people are more resilient and are thus less likely to develop mental problems as a result. People who recover slowly from trauma, mental or otherwise, are more likely to have mental problems. That part is genetic. The environment determines the rest.

Exactly. A sociopath can have an intellectual understand of emotions, but they cannot feel them. They are very charming much of the time because they have to over compensate for what they are.

No. Abuse shouldn't spare her from the death penalty if she is convicted. However, I doubt she will receive the death penalty or even life for this.
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Evanescence...overall I agree with your assessments, but again, unless Casey actually files charges against her dad, or the DA finds enough evidence to independently charge him, she is at high risk of going bye-bye for life or in death.
 
Removable Mind said:
Evanescence...overall I agree with your assessments, but again, unless Casey actually files charges against her dad, or the DA finds enough evidence to independently charge him, she is at high risk of going bye-bye for life or in death.
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This case is highly publicized and she has a clever lawyer. Traces of chloroform was found and now can be explained by the child's drowning. Of course, that's bull crap; but people will buy it. Or at the very least, the jury will be deadlocked. I look for a mistrial.
 
Gladiator said:
Would Casey and her family have made any decisions differently, if they could have seen the future? Would Cindy and George have offered different solutions to the dilemmas in Casey's life? What promises did George and Cindy make, or imply, over the years, at key moments, but found inconvenient, when the time came to keep the promises?

Is it rare for a single teenage mother to feel that her parents have made promises during early pregnancy, but the parents have turned out not to be nearly as available, as the parents had seemed to promise?



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You know what? At this time I am really not worried about the What If's and broken promises these crap parents may have made as all I care about is justice for Caylee. Casey could have gotten help at any time and she damn sure did not have to kill her babygirl. I refuse to let my heart bleed for Casey. I do hope that if George was sexually abusing her all her life and maybe even little Caylee? I hope he dies along with her. There is something so off and twisted about this family that creeps me out:(
 
dontworrybehappy said:
How do YOU explain it? Duct tape doesn't cause death. Still doesn't PROVE, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that her mother killed her. Can you put duct tape on a dead childs mouth? Sure can. Her behavior immediately following the child going missing doesn't indicate anything either. My aunt was laughing and having a party after her husband passed away. Did she kill him? Of course not. People grieve in different ways. Again, no proof, next piece of evidence.....

And gladiator, your incestuous families link is very anti-man and also not complete. All they even speak of is incest between a dad and his daughter where incest between a mom and her son is also very common in our society as well as brother-sister. It assumes a lot of stuff that isn't provable.

Basically, that link is borderline crap, dude.
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But why would you put ducttape over her mouth if she drowned? Just does not make sense. Of course killing your child because you are a cold hearted slut bitch that only cares about yourself makes no damn sense either:(
 
dontworrybehappy said:
Yep, and none of that has anything to do with the little girls death. Which nobody can prove why she died, so I hope the mom walks, not guilty of murder.
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Casey lived a life of lies and had fake friends, jobs, etc. and you really think she is not guilty? She made a fake life for herself that her parents did not question which is why Cindy waited so long to suspect something and call it in. Casey is a cold hearted lying narcissist. In a lot of ways? I feel Cindy enabled Casey in reguards to her lies and also feel she may have known of the sexual abuse at the hands of her father. Guilt will make people do very strange things.

I hope she gets death and never walks to get to party again. Ever.
 
I just wonder what really happened. Casey needs to testify. We need to see her tell the story. Undoubtedly it will be made up stuff. That's what's sad. We'll never know the true story.
 
tessaesque said:
Sometimes it does. I don't know what she did or whether she killed her daughter. I don't know what kind of life her daughter lived before she died. But if something traumatic happened to Casey as a child it's likely possible she developed sociopathtic tendancies (lack of emotional connection, inability to empathetize, etc) or other coping mechanisms that have affected her ability to function normally.
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Looking at other moments in her life - she's fine and doesn't seem to be completely off the wall. It's just not working for me and I'm not completely against insanity pleas.

I just can't grasp why she didn't report this - especially if it was an 'accidental drowning' like they're trying to claim. *shrug*
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Looking at other moments in her life - she's fine and doesn't seem to be completely off the wall. It's just not working for me and I'm not completely against insanity pleas.

I just can't grasp why she didn't report this - especially if it was an 'accidental drowning' like they're trying to claim. *shrug*
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Maybe they were afraid to be charged with negligent homicide. Her dad was a police detective, and mom is a nurse. There is something screwey here, but what is it? It's a horrible puzzle.
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Looking at other moments in her life - she's fine and doesn't seem to be completely off the wall. It's just not working for me and I'm not completely against insanity pleas.

I just can't grasp why she didn't report this - especially if it was an 'accidental drowning' like they're trying to claim. *shrug*
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Psychopaths and Sociopaths can actually blend in very well to their surroundings until the trigger is pulled. I'm not excusing Casey if she murdered her daughter. But I'm also not 100% convinced that she did this alone, or without severe psychological issues driving it. Something still feels incredibly wrong about this whole situation...behaviors aren't syncing with the norm from anybody in the family. Time lines make no sense. I think everybody is covering their own asses and all of them know what happened, personally.
 
Marilyn Monroe said:
I just wonder what really happened. Casey needs to testify. We need to see her tell the story. Undoubtedly it will be made up stuff. That's what's sad. We'll never know the true story.
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If I were on this jury right now? I would be majored confused. I mean I do think Casey killed her but all this stuff about death in a can, chloroform, etc.? It really would make me wonder. I mean the level of chloroform was deadly then someone else says it is around the same as you get in household cleaners. All of this has to be creating doubts in the jury box.
 
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