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Thread: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

  1. #171
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    more posturing, one-upsmanship and game playing:

    Durbin: Libya conflict requires authorization by Congress - The Hill's Floor Action

    actually, by now, the slasher is facing a pretty serious and growing congressional revolt over his ridiculous and wrong minded offensive in libya

    and it's certainly not republican

    ask brad sherman, ask kucinich, ask conyers, ask the senate WHIP

    ask maverick mccain and limp wristed lindsey graham, anti ghadafi hawks

    except they've turned, the slasher's absurd avowal that whatever-he's-doing-over-there doesn't amount to "hostilities" didn't pass their straight-face test either

    Congressmen criticize Obama's stand on Libya - The Washington Post

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Congress just needs to make a decision. The President has complied with the WPA in every way. It's now up to Congress to either tell the President to stop military action and send our armed forces home or allow them to stay for whatever timeframe they specify in order to complete the NATO-led mission. It's just that simple.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    more posturing, one-upsmanship and game playing:

    Durbin: Libya conflict requires authorization by Congress - The Hill's Floor Action

    actually, by now, the slasher is facing a pretty serious and growing congressional revolt over his ridiculous and wrong minded offensive in libya

    and it's certainly not republican

    ask brad sherman, ask kucinich, ask conyers, ask the senate WHIP

    ask maverick mccain and limp wristed lindsey graham, anti ghadafi hawks

    except they've turned, the slasher's absurd avowal that whatever-he's-doing-over-there doesn't amount to "hostilities" didn't pass their straight-face test either

    Congressmen criticize Obama's stand on Libya - The Washington Post
    Did anyone say it was just Republicans who had a problem with this? No. But I DID comment on Speaker Boehner's remarks directly. To which, he is the Speaker of the House and, as such, one of two people the President must report to per the WPA. As such, the Speaker bears the responsibility to lead Congress in this matter. So, I say either the House Speaker calls the President on this matter and pushes through a Congressional Resolution to end military involvement in Libya in the air, land or sea or he gives the President what he needs to get the job done. Either way - STOP THE FOOLISHNESS! It's political posturing, nothing more. You know it, I know it. Only you won't admit it. At least I'm brave enough to call BS when I see it.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-17-11 at 11:59 AM.

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    We are already untrustworthy. What is in our interest? That is what controls.
    Being a good faith negotiator is in our interests
    I may be wrong.

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    It's just that simple.
    no, the war will continue but no resolution will be forthcoming

    it's obama's war, it's his prerogative, he has no backing

    days not weeks, anyone?

    "limited" war, sans "hostilities?"

    nato, not us?

    nation building?

    party on, peaceniks

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by katiegrrl0 View Post
    Well Bush didn't give a crap about your Constitution either.
    Do you have any real evidence for this statement???

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    The President has complied with the WPA in every way.
    No, that is false.

    The key Section 1541(c) reads:

    (c) Presidential Executive Power as Commander-in-Chief; Limitation The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities, or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to (1) a declaration of war, (2) specific statutory authorization, or (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

    Can you point out the "imminent involvement in hostilities" there were with Libya?

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    From the thread:

    I read the article in the OP yesterday* and my initial reaction was, "WTF?". Then I thought about it and can understand where the President is coming from although I believe his interpretation is wrong. But for the sake of argument, the following analysis of the President's decision may shed some light on his point of view, specifically:

    The Administration argues that once it starts firing missiles from drones it is no longer in “hostilities” because U.S. troops suffer no danger of return fire and no danger of casualties, and (in contrast to ground troops) drones can easily be removed from the fight if Congress so decides. (Note that this argument implies that the President can wage aggressive war with drones and all manner of offshore missiles without having to bother with the War Powers Resolution’s time limits. So the implications here, in a world of increasingly remote weapons, are large.)
    Of course, the counter-argument to the above is what immediately follows the above statement:

    One difficulty in assessing the argument is that the WPR does not define “hostilities.” But common sense suggests that firing missiles from drones that kill people over an extended period of time pursuant to a U.N.-authorized use of force constitutes “hostilities.” So too do standard definitions of the term “hostilities,” which refer to acts or states of warfare or violence or unfriendliness without reference to the vulnerability of the aggressor or the reciprocity of the fighting (though of course “hostilities” can refer to reciprocated fighting).
    So, those who consider "hostilities" to include any aggressive or violent action or activities where gunfire or any military armorment is exchanged between two warring factions would be correct. I support this view. However, what I found interesting from the House Resolution (H. Res. 292) that Speaker Boehnor supports was the wording from section 1, paragraph (3):

    (3) The President shall not deploy, establish, or maintain the presence of units and members of the United States Armed Forces on the ground in Libya unless the purpose of the presence is to rescue a member of the Armed Forces from imminent danger.
    The position the Congressional Resolution outlines here concerning the non-use of combat forces on the ground in Libya is exactly the sitution the President not only supports but has maintained since NATO took the lead in this military campaign. Therefore, I really don't see where the problem is here since both sides agree to the non-use of ground troops in this case.

    My contention is very simple: If Congress truly believes the President is in violation of the WPA or the Constitution, all they have to do is say so and demand that the President withdraw from Libya from the air, sea and land. The mere fact that the resolution only restricts the use of ground forces and doesn't rescind the use of our Navy or Air Force tells me that Congress supports what the President is doing.

    *Note: Same article appears in the NYTimes which is the linked article referenced in the OP.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-18-11 at 12:39 PM.

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    too many angels on that pin

    meanwhile, it aint just drones:

    the united states conducts "70 per cent of reconnaissance missions, over 75 per cent of refuelling flights and 27% of all air sorties" flown by nato over there, according to financial times of london linked above

    either way, it's his war, he's increasingly isolated

    and what he breaks WE own

    stay up

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Simon W. Moon View Post
    Being a good faith negotiator is in our interests
    Exactly. . . .

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    too many angels on that pin

    meanwhile, it aint just drones:

    the united states conducts "70 per cent of reconnaissance missions, over 75 per cent of refuelling flights and 27% of all air sorties" flown by nato over there, according to financial times of london linked above

    either way, it's his war, he's increasingly isolated

    and what he breaks WE own

    stay up
    "and what he breaks WE own"
    Yes indeedy! So he should kill all those damn Libyan civilians while he has a chance because otherwise we will have to support them all just like Qaddaffi does. We don't need them, just the OIL. A very Corporate agenda, don't you think?

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