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Thread: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

  1. #111
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    the president's legal reasoning, per bauer and koh:

    1. whatever it is we're doing over in libya "does not amount to full blown 'hostilities' at the level necessary to involve the section of the wpa that imposes the deadline"

    2. whatever it is we're doing over there, white house counsel explains, we're NOT doing, nato is: "american forces have not been in 'hostilities' at least since april 7"

    3. "united states forces are at little risk in the operation because there are no american troops on the ground and libyan forces are unable to exchange meaningful fire with america forces"

    4. "there was little risk of the military mission escalating because it is constrained by the un resolution"

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/16/us...wers.html?_r=1

    look, it's obama's war, he's president, he can do what he wants

    but are you sure he's NOT an idiot?

    party on, peaceniks
    Last edited by The Prof; 06-15-11 at 10:03 PM.

  2. #112
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Or at least change the WPA. I believe it is ok for the President to have some leeway on the use of the armed forces in cases of national emergency, which a re-tweaked WPA should still do.

    International law does not matter in the current discussion, it is U.S. law. The WPA gives the president the authority to use military forces for a short period of time and a longer period of time is Congress approves. Congress approved in both cases with Iraq and with Afghanistan. Congress has NOT given approval for Libya. That is the legal difference from the purpose of U.S. law.

    All four conflicts are legal from an international perspective, but as of Sunday, the Libya one will become ILLEGAL from a U.S. perspective.
    I don't think we disagree much, but if you bring in Bush as a comparison, you have to mention international law. And, no, Iraq was not legal from an international sand point.

    However, I don't think congress has beening doing it's job, especially with Bush. Simply allowing the president to decide is shirking responsibility, making them little more than an after thought. They have been charged with responsibility and should step up. If this congress thinks the WPA means anything, they shold treat it like it does.

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  3. #113
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I don't think we disagree much, but if you bring in Bush as a comparison, you have to mention international law. And, no, Iraq was not legal from an international sand point.

    However, I don't think congress has beening doing it's job, especially with Bush. Simply allowing the president to decide is shirking responsibility, making them little more than an after thought. They have been charged with responsibility and should step up. If this congress thinks the WPA means anything, they shold treat it like it does.
    Iraq was legal according to the letter of international law, even is many beg to differ. And it was also legal according to US law as it was authorized by Congress.

    According to international law, the current mission skirts on legality, but it seems to certainly be legal. However, as of Sunday, it will NOT be legal according to U.S. law.

    Yeah, I think we agree about 90% on this, however...
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by The Prof View Post
    3. "united states forces are at little risk in the operation because there are no american troops on the ground and libyan forces are unable to exchange meaningful fire with america forces"
    Yep, don't sound like a war to me, or even a conflict, or a squabble.
    look, it's obama's war, he's president, he can do what he wants

    but are you sure he's NOT an idiot?

    party on, peaceniks
    Obviously it is not a war by definition, right? So how can it be Obama's "War?" IF it is not a "War," Then you are an idiot? Yes?
    One Tin Soldier Walked Away..................

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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Iraq was legal according to the letter of international law, even is many beg to differ. And it was also legal according to US law as it was authorized by Congress.

    LETS see the proof of your assertions. Like they say in Cal, white breasts have never seen the sun.
    According to international law, the current mission skirts on legality, but it seems to certainly be legal. However, as of Sunday, it will NOT be legal according to U.S. law.

    Yeah, I think we agree about 90% on this, however...
    Once again, you got the tan, show it dude. Where is your law and proof of your assertions??
    One Tin Soldier Walked Away..................

  6. #116
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    As the WPA supercedes and required the president to gain approval, the President is indeed in violation of the law (or at least will be on Sunday)
    He is not in violation of law until Monday, right? If Gaddafi is removed or Obama transfers/withdraws before Monday, he's good. I don't see why he's getting his homework in at the last minute, this late in his academic career. Then again, I procrastinate/screw-around plenty. He's really creating a stir though... 3 days until possible impeachment hearings that will stick.

    I wonder which of the three options he's going to go with. If he targets and pops Gaddafi, I'll crap.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-16-11 at 05:58 AM.

  7. #117
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by shintao View Post
    Once again, you got the tan, show it dude. Where is your law and proof of your assertions??
    Read the relevant UNSC resolutions... this has been debated ad infintum in this forum... the UNSC resolutions going back nearly two decades clearly give the authority to use force...
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    He is not in violation of law until Monday, right? If Gaddafi is removed or Obama transfers/withdraws before Monday, he's good. I don't see why he's getting his homework in at the last minute, this late in his academic career. Then again, I procrastinate/screw-around plenty. He's really creating a stir though... 3 days until possible impeachment hearings that will stick.

    I wonder which of the three options he's going to go with. If he targets and pops Gaddafi, I'll crap.
    Well, I would love it if he lifted Carter's executive order to target foreign leaders. I would dance if Khaddafy were to assume room temperature...
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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    So, within the one term president Obama's thinking is his splendid little war a war of choice or a war of necessity?




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    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    ...the WPA came afterward and if there are any contradictory provisions, the more recent law supercedes it. As the WPA supercedes and required the president to gain approval, the President is indeed in violation of the law (or at least will be on Sunday)
    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Weaker on international law. However, still short of a declartion of war. Time to end the useless WPA and move to having congress declare war.
    The matter of declaring war -vs- armed conflict isn't so cut-N-dry as many people may think. Read the two linked articles below then consider how the Libya conflict squares with both Congress' war power and international law(s) because both are relevent.

    Genocide and Crimes Against Humanity

    Declaration of war

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