Page 11 of 22 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 216

Thread: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

  1. #101
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,445

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    In effect, yes, atleast where a U.S. President wishes to commit U.S. armed forces to a foreign conflicts on humanitarian grounds in accordance with U.N. Resolution(s). It is the very reason GW Bush (and possible even Bush, Sr) went to war w/Iraq...he invoked U.N. resolutions. But oddly enough, no one was clamouring about whether or not he was in violation of the War Powers Act or the Constitution back then.
    Umm... they had congressional approval prior to military action.


    And yet, here we are seaking justification for President Obama to commit armed forces to Libya when he has the authority under two Acts of Congress, 3 U.N. Resolutions and a Congressional Resolution to atleast continue military actions until he can provide further explanation to justify continued use of armed forces.
    (bold mine)

    Someone clarify, please. I presume one of the acts is the WPA.

    The congressional resolution was approving the use of the WPA as appropriate? If so, that doesn't mean "until..."; it means until 90 days, lacking further approval/authorization within 60 days from the resolution. He had to provide further explanation, and get authorization from congress, within 60 days, to get more than 90. He does not get more than 90, any way shape or form, at this point (under the WPA). He is, however, still required to submit explanation to congress (I believe before the 90 day period), even though he waved the opportunity to extend the WPA resolution within 60 days.

    It's thursday here. He's got 3 days to remove Gaddafi (making it a different mission, and restarting the 'paperwork'), give the gear to NATO or withdraw it. If none of those happen by Monday morning, impeachment proceedings will begin. In which case, I hope he's got an Oliver North.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-15-11 at 07:08 PM.

  2. #102
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Originally Posted by Misterveritis
    LOL. The spanking *is* coming. The one term president Obama will not have his splendid little war.
    I'd say that's up to Congress to decide at this point wouldn't you?
    Exactly! The spanking is coming. I can sense it.

  3. #103
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,772

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    ecofarm,

    See my post #87 as well as this blog entry. It explains how the United Nations Participatory Act (UNPA) applies here.

    Misterveritis,

    Then let it come. It's within Congress' power to compel the President to withdraw military forces. I'd have no problem with that whatsoever.

    One last thing (for today anyway) on this whole Libya constitutional/unconstitutional/WPA violation debate, I think this CNN article (partially provided below) kind of puts the debate in it's proper perspective. Notice how the White House responds...

    Such political wrangling over war powers is common in Washington, with presidents frequently seeking to expand their freedom to commit U.S. forces and Congress battling to exert influence on the process.

    Boehner's letter said that, in this case, "the ongoing, deeply divisive debate originated with a lack of genuine consultation prior to commencement of operations and has been further exacerbated by the lack of visibility and leadership from you and your administration."

    With his letter, Boehner raised the stakes on an issue that could prove politically embarrassing to Obama, with increasing numbers of Republicans and Democrats opposing the Libya mission.

    Vietor said late Tuesday that the White House information would probably be delivered to members of Congress on Wednesday.

    "We are in the final stages of preparing extensive information for the House and Senate that will address a whole host of issues about our ongoing efforts in Libya, including those raised in the House resolution as well as our legal analysis with regard to the War Powers Resolution," he said.

    Since March 1, administration witnesses have testified at more than 10 hearings that included a "substantial discussion of Libya" and participated in more than 30 member or staff briefings on the matter, according to Vietor.

    In announcing the mission in March, Obama said U.S. forces would take the early lead in establishing a "no-fly" zone over the country to enforce a U.N. resolution calling for the protection of Libyan civilians from forces loyal to leader Moammar Gadhafi.

    The U.S. forces eventually assumed a supporting role as NATO took over the mission.

    Congressional opponents of the mission say that its objective of civilian protection fails to match the stated U.S. goal of Gadhafi's resignation or ouster and that the Libya situation could become a stalemate.

    The White House says incremental progress is occurring through increasing diplomatic, political and military pressure on Gadhafi to step down.

    In a coincidence of scheduling, Obama and Boehner are set to play golf together for the first time Saturday, a day after Boehner's deadline for information from the administration and the day before he says it could be in violation of the War Powers Resolution.
    Last edited by Objective Voice; 06-15-11 at 07:14 PM.

  4. #104
    Student
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    mid-illinois
    Last Seen
    10-08-16 @ 03:56 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    272

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Qaddafi Coddled by U.S. Oil Companies Whose Hearts Are Where The Money Is - Bloomberg

    "U.S. oil producers nonetheless rallied on behalf of Qaddafi, according to formerly secret State Department cables published this year by WikiLeaks and lobbying records. The six U.S. oil companies, including Occidental, and two U.S. units of foreign companies doing business in Libya, boosted lobbying expenditures 63 percent to $75.8 million in 2008, when they were pursuing the waiver for Libya, filings show.

    Congress voted in July 2008 to spare Libya from the terrorism measure in exchange for its promise to create a fund for victims. The companies’ wooing of U.S. lawmakers and officials seemed to have paid off. "


    obama and congress is doing pretty much what he and his predecessor were told to do by those that own them..

  5. #105
    global liberation

    ecofarm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Miami
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:57 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    66,445

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    ecofarm,

    See my post #87 as well as this blog entry. It explains how the United Nations Participatory Act (UNPA) applies here.
    I looked at #87.

    bring to your attention the United Nations Participatory Act of 1945, 22 U.S.C. 287d:

    The President is authorized to negotiate a special agreement or agreements with the Security Council which shall be subject to the approval of the Congress by appropriate Act or joint resolution
    This simply refers the UN Resolution to the WPA (or joint resolution/declaration of war) and is why congress approved the use of the WPA, almost 90 days ago. Right?

  6. #106
    Sage

    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Huntsville, AL (USA)
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    9,772

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    This simply refers the UN Resolution to the WPA (or joint resolution/declaration of war) and is why congress approved the use of the WPA, almost 90 days ago. Right?
    From my interpretation of both that section of the UNPA and the WPA, I'd have to say yes.

  7. #107
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Translation: You got nothin' on this issue except platitudes and political rhetoric. NEXT!!!

    I bring to the reader's attention posts #428 and #429 from the thread. The combined commentary from those posts along with that of my post #71 in this thread should put an end to this nonsense.

    The President has not violated the War Powers Act nor the Constitution in any way. What we're seeing from members of Congress equates to political posturing, nothing more.
    From your own link...

    The President is authorized to negotiate a special agreement or agreements with the Security Council which shall be subject to the approval of the Congress by appropriate Act or joint resolution
    I supposed the bolded part escaped your attention.

    Furthermore, the WPA came afterward and if there are any contradictory provisions, the more recent law supercedes it. As the WPA supercedes and required the president to gain approval, the President is indeed in violation of the law (or at least will be on Sunday)
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  8. #108
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    In effect, yes, atleast where a U.S. President wishes to commit U.S. armed forces to a foreign conflicts on humanitarian grounds in accordance with U.N. Resolution(s). It is the very reason GW Bush (and possible even Bush, Sr) went to war w/Iraq...he invoked U.N. resolutions. But oddly enough, no one was clamouring about whether or not he was in violation of the War Powers Act or the Constitution back then. And yet, here we are seaking justification for President Obama to commit armed forces to Libya when he has the authority under two Acts of Congress, 3 U.N. Resolutions and a Congressional Resolution to atleast continue military actions until he can provide further explanation to justify continued use of armed forces.
    Because both Iraq actions were authorized by Congress...
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

  9. #109
    Sage
    Boo Radley's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Last Seen
    11-22-17 @ 04:22 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    36,858

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    Because both Iraq actions were authorized by Congress...
    Weaker on international law. However, still short of a declartion of war. Time to end the useless WPA and move to having congress declare war.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #110
    Defender of the Faith
    ludahai's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Taichung, Taiwan - 2017 East Asian Games Candidate City
    Last Seen
    07-03-13 @ 02:22 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    10,320

    Re: Power outage: Libya war shows limits of War Powers Act

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Weaker on international law. However, still short of a declartion of war. Time to end the useless WPA and move to having congress declare war.
    Or at least change the WPA. I believe it is ok for the President to have some leeway on the use of the armed forces in cases of national emergency, which a re-tweaked WPA should still do.

    International law does not matter in the current discussion, it is U.S. law. The WPA gives the president the authority to use military forces for a short period of time and a longer period of time is Congress approves. Congress approved in both cases with Iraq and with Afghanistan. Congress has NOT given approval for Libya. That is the legal difference from the purpose of U.S. law.

    All four conflicts are legal from an international perspective, but as of Sunday, the Libya one will become ILLEGAL from a U.S. perspective.
    Semper Paratus
    Boston = City of Champions: Bruins 2011; Celtics 2008; Red Sox 2004, 2007; Patriots 2002, 2004, 2005
    Jon Huntsman for President

Page 11 of 22 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •