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Supreme Court orders California to release tens of thousands of prison inmates

disneydude said:
The reality is, the California prisons are bursting at the seams with non-violent offenders due to these "get tough on crime laws". [highlight]Anyone working in the system knew this and has seen this coming for the last several years.[/highlight] You simply cannot sustain the number of people that you are sending to prison.....
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Nope. The proportion of non-violent offenders has decreased since these "get tough on crime laws" were passed. Prisons in CA were 40% violent offenders when three strikes was passed in the 1990's - they're now over 50% violent offenders.

disneydude said:
The good that will come out of this is that it will force the state to actually go to the less costly and more successful alternatives such as drug treatment and other diversionary type programs
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California did that over 10 years ago with Proposition 36, mandating probationary sentences and treatment for non-violent drug offenders.

The problem isn't that "prisons are bursting at the seams with non-violent offenders" -- the problem is that California is f'ing broke and has been for quite some time.
 
Boo Radley said:
Is this really a major crime, gettng high? And is this surprising for a 19 year old? Seems we have more serious crminals to jail than this.
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Maybe he should have thought about that before he lit up. I'd love to give weed a try, just to see what all the hub bub is about. But I won't till it's legalized, if ever. Why? Because breaking the law... for my own gain is, well ya know... ILLEGAL.


Why throw speeders into Jail? And that guy that ONLY had two beers, really, aren't there "worse" criminals out there?

How about that guy that "only" slapped his girlfriend? I mean, it was just a slap, does he really deserve to be in jail?

How about that kdi that stole a couple of snickers bars, I mean it's not liek the store really lost money...
 
Kandahar said:
So you think that it's worth $20,000 per year of the taxpayer's money to keep a 19-year-old pothead locked in prison where he is sodomized daily for the horrible crime of smoking a joint. How conservative of you. :roll:
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Who made him light up?

Was he forced to buy the pot, break the law and get high?
 
MrVicchio said:
19 years old and in prison cause he decided being a law abiding citizen was less important then getting high
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Yes, truly someone to have pity for.
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Thank you for proving my point. You're nothing more than an ignorant Texan who has no idea what the California penal system is like but seems to have an opinion on the matter. I'm not even the biggest tax payer defender and even I realize that it doesn't make sense to make somebody a felon on tax payer dollars and ruin their life with correctional bureaucracy simply so you can feel good about being tough on drug users. With that said, the Californian system needs reform and has needed reform for over 30 years. Drug users should be given fines. Not jail time. That overcrowds the system and wastes money. Repeat DUIs should have their licenses revoked and made to pay a fine in order to get it back. That's the reform California needs. Not more Texan style justice.
 
Hatuey said:
Thank you for proving my point. You're nothing more than an ignorant Texan who has no idea what the California penal system is like but seems to have an opinion on the matter. I'm not even the biggest tax payer defender and even I realize that it doesn't make sense to make somebody a felon on tax payer dollars and ruin their life with correctional bureaucracy simply so you can feel good about being tough on drug users. With that said, the Californian system needs reform and has needed reform for over 30 years. Drug users should be given fines. Not jail time. That overcrowds the system and wastes money. Repeat DUIs should have their licenses revoked and made to pay a fine in order to get it back. That's the reform California needs. Not more Texan style justice.
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I'm sorry you feel I'm ignorant because I think criminals should actually.. be treated as such.

I say go for it, try the "touchy feely" approach to crime, let us know how that works out for you.
 
MrVicchio said:
Who made him light up?

Was he forced to buy the pot, break the law and get high?
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Who the **** cares? It doesn't hurt anyone. Smoking an herb does not justify locking someone in a cage for years, subjecting them to daily rapes, and taking $20,000 of the taxpayer's money per inmate per year.
 
MrVicchio said:
I'm sorry you feel I'm ignorant because I think criminals should actually.. be treated as such.

I say go for it, try the "touchy feely" approach to crime, let us know how that works out for you.
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Well the get tough on crime approach has lead to the largest per capita incarceration rate and over crowding. I wonder how much this stuff is costing us the tax payers?
 
dontworrybehappy said:
You know how in Libya, Iraq, Kuwait, and soon to be Syria we went in and took out the regime that abused its citizens? We stated that people have a right to live in an environment that is at least livable. No gov't has a right to kill its own citizens, whether through bullets or bars. Even inmates, this might shock some, have a right to live in an environment that is safe. Once inmates start dying because of living conditions, it is time for the gov't to step in and take charge. No state has a right to kill inmates through horrible and awful living environments.

I fully support this and hope it catches on in other states as well. The cost of keeping an inmate incarcerated is almost 30,000 a year. You want to save money? Release some of these non-violent offenders. Not to mention, that puts more people to work, paying taxes, and not sucking them up as a number in a cell.
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There are two problems with your argument.

1. We didn’t go into Iraq or Kuwait because the regimes were abusing their citizens. In both those cases the President received congressional approval. The invasion of Libya is unconstitutional. End of story. You might be able to argue that the feds have the right to intervene in situations where American Citizens are being mistreated but you have failed to make that argument.

2. Forcing the state to release tens of thousands of inmates would have done nothing to save the lives of those who were the subject of this lawsuit. This was about providing mental and medical health care to inmates, primarily mental health care. Two seriously mentally ill inmates committed suicide. Those are the deaths being sited.
 
Kandahar said:
Who the **** cares? It doesn't hurt anyone. Smoking an herb does not justify locking someone in a cage for years, subjecting them to daily rapes, and taking $20,000 of the taxpayer's money per inmate per year.
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If it was just "smoking an herb" I'd agree with you.

But it's not. And you know it, but you won't be honest cause you are a pro-drug type.
 
Well what they'er doing isn't going to fix anything.

It's just a bandaid - a temporary solution to a far deeper and much larger problems.

If the laws are corrupt they need to fix those - but just turning out convicted criminals to the streets isn't going to 'fix them' - in fact - they're worse off and many will just do something else to get back into the system.
 
Kandahar said:
Who the **** cares? It doesn't hurt anyone. Smoking an herb does not justify locking someone in a cage for years, subjecting them to daily rapes, and taking $20,000 of the taxpayer's money per inmate per year.
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yeah, god forbid we actually hold people accountable for the choices they make
 
MrVicchio said:
I'm sorry you feel I'm ignorant because I think criminals should actually
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No. You're ignorant because you don't understand how the California prison system works and your first reaction was 'I wouldn't want to live in California'. It's not like they'll start releasing murderers and child molesters. They're going to release all the people who overcrowd the system. DUIs, drug users people out on fraud/counterfeit charges.

.. be treated as such.
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Drug users are criminals because the system labels them as such. Not because there is anything inherently wrong with what they're doing. Drug laws are based on a moral agenda, nothing else. You just admitted it. You want to try drugs but you don't because they're illegal. Are there any other illegal activities which you may want to try but don't because of their legal status? Murder? Rape? Your statement is proof that drug laws are in essence based on the personal opinions of certain people and not a survivalist contract of any sort.

I say go for it, try the "touchy feely" approach to crime, let us know how that works out for you.
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More proof of your ignorance. Most of the industrial world employs restorative justice. The US is still stuck in middle age level punishments. Whereas we should be encouraging small time criminals to turn away from crime we hit them with excessive sentences. Whereas we have chances to create a system where a person isn't bound to the mistakes they make in their youth, we have a system that constantly reminds convicts of their mistakes. Crime laws have only increased in the last 100 years. Is it any surprise that the 'tough on crime' laws have had the adverse effect of creating criminals?
 
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Hatuey said:
Now, do you have a problem with releasing some 19 year old who got caught with a bit of weed? What's the alternative? Keep him in an overcrowded jail with people who can teach him how to be a real criminal?
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This is utter hogwash. 19 year old kids aren’t in prison in CA for getting caught with a little weed.
 
OscarB63 said:
yeah, god forbid we actually hold people accountable for the choices they make
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I have been so victimized, hurt, my rights violated by every kid that ever smoked a joint. I demand revenge, cold hard bloody revenge for the crimes committed against me!:roll:
 
MrVicchio said:
If it was just "smoking an herb" I'd agree with you.

But it's not. And you know it, but you won't be honest cause you are a pro-drug type.
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Yep. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to sell heroin on your kid's school playground. :roll:
 
winston53660 said:
I have been so victimized, hurt, my rights violated by every kid that ever smoked a joint. I demand revenge, cold hard bloody revenge for the crimes committed against me!:roll:
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Was that supposed to be taken seriously?
 
I love how some conservatives constantly protest big government, wasteful spending, and any government programs that actually help people. But if you catch someone committing some minor crime? No amount of government spending is too high to lock them up in a cage for years!

Apparently, cost-benefit analysis just goes right out the window when the subject is crime and punishment.
 
GPS_Flex said:
This is utter hogwash. 19 year old kids aren’t in prison in CA for getting caught with a little weed.
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Sale or distribution to minors is a felony under Health and Safety Code 11361.

If you have a 17 year old friend and you smoke weed with them, that can be charged as distribution to a minor.

CA NORML Marijuana Laws

(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers or gives or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.

CA NORML Marijuana Laws

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section or as authorized by law, every person who transports, imports into this state, sells, furnishes, administers, or gives away, or offers to transport import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give away, or attempts to import into this state or transport any marijuana shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of two, three or four years.

Senate Votes to Double Fines, Jail Time for Pot Brownies | FDL Action

The Senate unanimously passed Dianne Feinstein (D-CA)’s “Saving Kids from Dangerous Drugs Act of 2009″ (S. 258) that targets pot brownies and other marijuana edibles preferred by some medical marijuana patients. The bill next moves to the House; if it passes that chamber, anyone making pot brownies or similar products could be subject to double the fines and jail time for regular marijuana.

This bill’s passage marks a step backwards for Congress, which this week also passed the Fair Sentencing Act that reduced the sentencing disparities between cocaine and crack from 100:1 to 18:1. Now we have a new disparity: pot brownies and other marijuana edibles are now treated as something twice as bad as just distributing marijuana.
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USC / L.A. Times poll says 49% of California voters favor marijuana legalization | Comments Blog | Los Angeles Times

Drug possession arrests for everything but marijuana collectively fell by nearly 30% in the same period. Meanwhile, arrests for marijuana possession have skyrocketed -- up 127%. This rise in marijuana arrests is the ultimate outlier.
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What were you saying?
 
Kandahar said:
I love how some conservatives constantly protest big government, wasteful spending, and any government programs that actually help people. But if you catch someone committing some minor crime? No amount of government spending is too high to lock them up in a cage for years!

Apparently, cost-benefit analysis just goes right out the window when the subject is crime and punishment.
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I'd rather spend $20K per year to keep them in prison than give them $20K per year in welfare. at least in prison they won't be becoming baby daddy to five different women.
 
Hatuey said:
Sale or distribution to minors is a felony under Health and Safety Code 11361.

If you have a 17 year old friend and you smoke weed with them, that can be charged as distribution to a minor.

CA NORML Marijuana Laws

(b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers or gives or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years.

CA NORML Marijuana Laws

(a) Except as otherwise provided by this section or as authorized by law, every person who transports, imports into this state, sells, furnishes, administers, or gives away, or offers to transport import into this state, sell, furnish, administer, or give away, or attempts to import into this state or transport any marijuana shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of two, three or four years.

Senate Votes to Double Fines, Jail Time for Pot Brownies | FDL Action



USC / L.A. Times poll says 49% of California voters favor marijuana legalization | Comments Blog | Los Angeles Times



What were you saying?
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distributing pot to your underage friends is not the same thing as "being caught with a little weed".
 
OscarB63 said:
I'd rather spend $20K per year to keep them in prison than give them $20K per year in welfare. at least in prison they won't be becoming baby daddy to five different women.
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What if the welfare was conditional on them going to school and learning a trade?
 
Kandahar said:
Here are a few examples of some of the **** America's horrible criminal justice system does:

Crime and punishment in America: Rough justice | The Economist
Rough justice in America: Too many laws, too many prisoners | The Economist
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Ok, I’ll agree with you that there are certainly too many nutty cases where law enforcement and the judicial system go overboard but we aren’t throwing 19 year old kids in prison for possession of a little weed here in CA and even if we were, it would have done zip, zero zilch to help those who are supposedly the victims in this case because they aren’t mentally ill.
 
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