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Thread: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorization

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    He hasn' broken any rules. He has ~20 days to withdraw the drones and write to congress why the extra time was needed - as per the WPA.
    Which rule is he following? Here, again, are his lawful choices:

    Purpose and Policy”. TITLE 50 > CHAPTER 33 > 1541

    (c) Presidential executive power as Commander-in-Chief; limitation
    The constitutional powers of the President as Commander-in-Chief to introduce United States Armed Forces into hostilities,
    or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances, are exercised only pursuant to

    (1) a declaration of war,
    (2) specific statutory authorization, or
    (3) a national emergency created by attack upon the United States, its territories or possessions, or its armed forces.

    None of these appear to fit the Libya case. Besides, the hostilities are occurring on the US-Mexican Border. Why isn't he using the armed forces there?

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And what excuse will you make for him in 20 days?
    depends on what the media is feeding me in 18

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    (2) specific statutory authorization,
    I choose that one, and refer to the WPA.


    [SEC. 5.](b) Within sixty calendar days after a report is submitted or is required to be submitted pursuant to section 4(a)(1), whichever is earlier, the President shall terminate any use of United States Armed Forces with respect to which such report was submitted (or required to be submitted), unless the Congress (1) has declared war or has enacted a specific authorization for such use of United States Armed Forces, (2) has extended by law such sixty-day period, or (3) is physically unable to meet as a result of an armed attack upon the United States. Such sixty-day period shall be extended for not more than an additional thirty days if the President determines and certifies to the Congress in writing that unavoidable military necessity respecting the safety of United States Armed Forces requires the continued use of such armed forces in the course of bringing about a prompt removal of such forces.
    SEC. 4. (a) In the absence of a declaration of war, in any case in which United States Armed Forces are introduced--
    (1) into hostilities or into situations where imminent involvement in hostilities is clearly indicated by the circumstances;
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-06-11 at 09:12 AM.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by ludahai View Post
    And what excuse will you make for him in 20 days?
    I'll admit that I support Iran-Contra.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    You don’t answer real questions but in the off chance that you have decided to answer them, I’ll ask again.

    Did candidate Obama claim that the President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation?
    And I have answered. This refers to an opperation outside a UN opperation. If you don't look at things in context, you will often get the wrong answer. Remember, Bush was outside the UN. He was not offering support, but invading a country on a pretext without real justification, like an actual or imminent threat. These differences matter. It is dishonest to ignore them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    And I have answered. This refers to an opperation outside a UN opperation. If you don't look at things in context, you will often get the wrong answer.
    Sounds like Anthony Wiener saying his member was "out of context"....

    Remember, Bush was outside the UN.
    I do not want to debate the entire Bush era with you Joe, but you are flat wrong here. He had not one, but two separate resolutions on Iraq.

    He was not offering support, but invading a country on a pretext without real justification, like an actual or imminent threat.
    Support? You're kidding right? Everyone including house, and senate demo's believed Iraq at the time to be developing WMD. That includes other countries like our allies, that were also providing intel pointing to that fact. Now as it turns out, very little other than the capability to produce these WMD was found, but that in no way negates the intel of the day, no matter how much 20/20 hindsight you use to rewrite history.

    These differences matter.
    They do. However, you are using them in a disingenuous manner.

    It is dishonest to ignore them.
    So you admit to being dishonest on this?

    j-mac
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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    This refers to an opperation outside a UN opperation.
    based on what, exactly?

    2. In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites — a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)
    The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.
    As Commander-in-Chief, the President does have a duty to protect and defend the United States. In instances of self-defense, the President would be within his constitutional authority to act before advising Congress or seeking its consent. History has shown us time and again, however, that military action is most successful when it is authorized and supported by the Legislative branch. It is always preferable to have the informed consent of Congress prior to any military action.
    As for the specific question about bombing suspected nuclear sites, I recently introduced S.J. Res. 23, which states in part that “any offensive military action taken by the United States against Iran must be explicitly authorized by Congress.” The recent NIE tells us that Iran in 2003 halted its effort to design a nuclear weapon. While this does not mean that Iran is no longer a threat to the United States or its allies, it does give us time to conduct aggressive and principled personal diplomacy aimed at preventing Iran from developing nuclear weapons.
    I see absolutely nothing in this quote that lends credence to your interpretation, especially considering that the UN charter specifically denotes that military action, on behalf of the UN, must comply with each nations domestic code

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. I stand by everything I said then and now. I know the difference between the two situations, and it is silly, not to mention partisan, to pretend that what Obama has done here is equal to what Bush did. Perhaps it is because you know you can't win the debate n merit that you seek to distort?
    I see, well Obama is doing exactly what Bush did......actually continuing what Bush did; plus the bonus of getting involved in a matter only really of any concern to Europe. But of course this is different since it's Obama, and he needs to be a war presdient for 2012. Anyway, I don't see the national interest in Libya, and that's why I never supported it.

    :
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    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Nobody remembers the "Axis of Evil" rhetoric? IMO they are all fare game when it comes to legalities.

    You are either with us or you are with the terrorist............



    I sort of miss being afraid and having someone tell me I am a terrorist if I don't agree with their point of views.

    Thanks again George for those 8 wonderful (fearful) years.
    Last edited by Utility Man; 06-06-11 at 03:10 PM.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    I see, well Obama is doing exactly what Bush did......actually continuing what Bush did; plus the bonus of getting involved in a matter only really of any concern to Europe. But of course this is different since it's Obama, and he needs to be a war presdient for 2012. Anyway, I don't see the national interest in Libya, and that's why I never supported it.

    :
    No, he isn't. Until he actually invades a country outside the UN on a pretext, he is not doing exactly the same. i know you feel the need to paint everything that way, but it factually isn't the case. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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