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Thread: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorization

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    First of all, This overuse of accusation of using "strawman" arguments is a lazy tactic to avoid answering honestly. I thought you were smarter than that.
    No overuse. The fact is this is common. From the begining you and others jump all the way to being subervant to the UN when any arguement suggest we adhere to our agreements. This is a classic strawman. Poor argument. period.

    Second, We can, and do have agreements with the UN that were ratified, however, that in NO WAY binds us to subjecting our military, or lives as dictated under UN mandate. Let them raise their own military.
    it does bind us within our agreements. In those agreeements we spelled out exactly when we would and could use force. We weren't held at gun point. No one forced us. We said these agreements were reasonable and signed on to them. And through the UN held others accountable who did not do the same, like Iraq. Breaking an agreement is breaking the law. No one being willing or able to enforce the law doesn't mean it wasn't broken.

    Still, the point here is that Bush's action in iraq is not equal to Obama's action in Lybia, and i've spelled out why.


    You don't know if Obama want's Gaddaffi out of power? Where do you live? Do you see the news? Read a paper? Come on man, no one believes that. Sorry, try again.

    j-mac
    Much like Bush supporters did with Saddam, you're trying to equate wanting to doing. They are not the same thing. I want to win the lottery, but I've never won. Hell, I've never even bought a ticket. Surely the error in your thiinking isn't that hard to understand?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No overuse. The fact is this is common. From the begining you and others jump all the way to being subervant to the UN when any arguement suggest we adhere to our agreements. This is a classic strawman. Poor argument. period.

    Nah, just another intellectually lazy, and transparent tactic from liberals that refuse to debate honestly. But I covered that already.

    it does bind us within our agreements. In those agreeements we spelled out exactly when we would and could use force. We weren't held at gun point. No one forced us. We said these agreements were reasonable and signed on to them. And through the UN held others accountable who did not do the same, like Iraq. Breaking an agreement is breaking the law. No one being willing or able to enforce the law doesn't mean it wasn't broken.

    I don't believe that the UN can tell us what to do. If they think that we are breaking some law, let them try and enforce it.

    Still, the point here is that Bush's action in iraq is not equal to Obama's action in Lybia, and i've spelled out why.
    I never said it was. That is a strawman on your part, and a very dishonest one to boot.

    Much like Bush supporters did with Saddam, you're trying to equate wanting to doing. They are not the same thing. I want to win the lottery, but I've never won. Hell, I've never even bought a ticket. Surely the error in your thiinking isn't that hard to understand?
    When you see that a NATO mission was undertaken, who's military do you think is predomenant in that mission? I don't buy lottery's so your analogy is lacking.

    j-mac
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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Nah, just another intellectually lazy, and transparent tactic from liberals that refuse to debate honestly. But I covered that already.
    Actually j, that is exactly what you're doing with the strawman. You skip debating the issue to make fight the strawman that we want the US subject to the UN. That's why I bring up the use of this strawman of yours. it is intellectually lazy and little more than a poor tactic to avoid debate.


    I don't believe that the UN can tell us what to do. If they think that we are breaking some law, let them try and enforce it.
    No one said they can. No one made us sign the agreement. I can't make you take out a loan for a care, but once you do, sign the paper, the law says you have to pay the note. That is the nature of agreements.


    I never said it was. That is a strawman on your part, and a very dishonest one to boot.
    J, that's exactly where we started. Go back and read. You interupted a discussion concerning this being equal to what Bush did. You interjected yourself into.


    When you see that a NATO mission was undertaken, who's military do you think is predomenant in that mission? I don't buy lottery's so your analogy is lacking.

    j-mac
    It doesn't matter at all. We've agreed to give that support. If you don't like it, and many don't, encourage your representatives to go back to the table and write a new agreement.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Actually j, that is exactly what you're doing with the strawman. You skip debating the issue to make fight the strawman that we want the US subject to the UN. That's why I bring up the use of this strawman of yours. it is intellectually lazy and little more than a poor tactic to avoid debate.

    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you the "Pee Wee Herman defense"

    "I know you are, but what am I".....lol

    No one said they can. No one made us sign the agreement. I can't make you take out a loan for a care, but once you do, sign the paper, the law says you have to pay the note. That is the nature of agreements.
    And if you as the bank are violating the contract I have recourse as well.

    Do you believe that we should answer to the UN?

    J, that's exactly where we started. Go back and read. You interupted a discussion concerning this being equal to what Bush did. You interjected yourself into.

    "Interjected"???? Hey, pal! It's an open forum. You want a private conversation use the little button provided for that. Otherwise, stop whining....

    It doesn't matter at all. We've agreed to give that support. If you don't like it, and many don't, encourage your representatives to go back to the table and write a new agreement.
    I have, and do write my reps. on this, I can tell you I always start out with US out of the UN, and UN out of the US!

    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You can have agreements, those we signed and ratified, and not be answering to the UN. We're only upholding our agreements.
    you think libya is a un mission?

    LOL!

    I don't know know if that is Obama's ultimate goal.
    you don't know?

    LOL!

    where ya been?

    in south wales again?

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    there is question about what he has to as part of a UN mission
    From the begining you and others jump all the way to being subervant to the UN when any arguement suggest we adhere to our agreements.
    I can't make you take out a loan for a care, but once you do, sign the paper, the law says you have to pay the note.
    You interjected yourself into.
    ah, detroit...

    of course

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    back to substance, ft today:

    Libya’s western-backed rebels have used up their stock of crude oil, with no certainty about when production can resume from vulnerable south-eastern oil fields, the main exporting company under opposition control has said.

    The small refinery at Tobruk, the maritime export terminal near the Egyptian border, shut down late last week after using up the last oil in storage, according to Abdel Jalil Mayouf, spokesman for Arabian Gulf Oil Co (Agoco).

    The new authorities in eastern Libya have held major oil fields roughly 500 kilometres to the south since the February uprising, including the country’s largest, Sarir, with potential output of more than 200,000 barrels a day in normal circumstances.

    But forces loyal to Muammar al-Gaddafi, Libya’s ruler for nearly 42 years, hold nearby towns to the west, keeping the rebel oil fields exposed to surprise attacks across the open desert. Lightly armed mercenaries in small 4x4 vehicles have slipped through despite Nato air cover for anti-Gaddafi forces.
    FT.com / Middle East & North Africa - Libya rebels running out of crude stocks

    days, not weeks?

    nato, not the united states?

    limited, not war?

    nation building, anyone?

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    It is absolutely nation building. From a different tact ofcourse. Obama is making alliances in some very dangerous ways, with some very dangerous people. And future Presidents trying to undo the harm that Obama is now building will damage the region for a good long time.


    j-mac
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    It is absolutely nation building. From a different tact ofcourse. Obama is making alliances in some very dangerous ways, with some very dangerous people. And future Presidents trying to undo the harm that Obama is now building will damage the region for a good long time.


    j-mac
    Indeed. It could be worse than losing Iran.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    What wordin of the War Powers Act differentiates between "lots of action" and "limited action", granting an exemption for the latter?

    Oh.

    There isn't any.

    Ergo, the "President" is currently conducting an illegal war of personal choice on the side of al qeada in Libya.

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