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Thread: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorization

  1. #21
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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Once again Obama is ignoring the law.

    Once again the left-wing media is ignoring the story.

    Nothing new in America.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    I support American intervention in the Libyan Civil War. However, the War Powers Act is currently the law of the land.

    However, every President has challenged Congress' limitations on the executive branch. This has been true since the beginning of our country. So many Presidents have questioned the constitutionality of the War Powers Resolution since it was passed.

    On one hand, Congress has the ability to declare war and also the ability to fund it. However, the President has the power to command the armed forces which he has so that timely military actions can be decided on. This is why the executive is headed by a single person and not be a co-equal committee - they knew that such military decisions would be better if one person was responsible for it all rather than a group of people who may undermine each other.

    I don't mind at all Congress starting to re-assert its authority over such things; however, I don't expect an adequate or long-term solution to this issue until the Supreme Court steps up and clarifies the guidelines on how such things should work between the President and Congress.
    The "President" has had two whole months to present his case before the American people and the Congress for continued American presence in Libya.

    The "President" has failed to make his case.

    If he refuses to present his case and demand either a declaration of war (which is constitutional) or at least Congressional authorization for further expenditures, his violating the law.

    As a criminal, he should be impeached and his case remanded to whatever court is applicable for presidential dereliction of duty and misapppropriation of funds.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    And who is heading this "transitional government", what are its aims, political philosophies and who are its Libyan supporters?
    .
    A vision of a democratic Libya

    The interim national council hereby presents its vision for rebuilding the democratic state of Libya. This vision responds to the needs and aspirations of our people, while incorporating the historical changes brought about by the 17 February revolution.
    We have learnt from the struggles of our past during the dark days of dictatorship that there is no alternative to building a free and democratic society and ensuring the supremacy of international humanitarian law and human rights declarations. This can only be achieved through dialogue, tolerance, co-operation, national cohesiveness and the active participation of all citizens. As we are familiar with being ruled by the authoritarian dictatorship of one man, the political authority that we seek must represent the free will of the people, without exclusion or suppression of any voice.
    The lessons of our past will outline our social contract through the need to respect the interests of all groups and classes that comprise the fabric of our society and not compromise the interests of one at the expense of the other. It is this social contract that must lead us to a civil society that recognises intellectual and political pluralism and allows for the peaceful transfer of power through legal institutions and ballot boxes; in accordance with a national constitution crafted by the people and endorsed in a referendum.
    To that end, we will outline our aspirations for a modern, free and united state, following the defeat of the illegal Gaddafi regime. The interim national council will be guided by the following in our continuing march to freedom, through espousing the principles of political democracy. We recognise without reservation our obligation to:
    1. Draft a national constitution that clearly defines its nature, essence and purpose and establishes legal, political, civil, legislative, executive and judicial institutions. The constitution will also clarify the rights and obligations of citizens in a transparent manner, thus separating and balancing the three branches of legislative, executive and judicial powers.
    2. Form political organisations and civil institutions including the formation of political parties, popular organisations, unions, societies and other civil and peaceful associations.
    3. Maintain a constitutional civil and free state by upholding intellectual and political pluralism and the peaceful transfer of power, opening the way for genuine political participation, without discrimination.
    4. Guarantee every Libyan citizen, of statutory age, the right to vote in free and fair parliamentary and presidential elections, as well as the right to run for office.
    5. Guarantee and respect the freedom of expression through media, peaceful protests, demonstrations and sit-ins and other means of communication, in accordance with the constitution and its laws in a way that protects public security and social peace.
    6. A state that draws strength from our strong religious beliefs in peace, truth, justice and equality.
    7. Political democracy and the values of social justice, which include:
    a. The nation’s economy to be used for the benefit of the Libyan people by creating effective economic institutions in order to eradicate poverty and unemployment – working towards a healthy society, a green environment and a prosperous economy.
    b. The development of genuine economic partnerships between a strong and productive public sector, a free private sector and a supportive and effective civil society, which overstands corruption and waste.
    c. Support the use of science and technology for the betterment of society, through investments in education, research and development, thus enabling the encouragement of an innovative culture and enhancing the spirit of creativity. Focus on emphasising individual rights in a way that guarantees social freedoms that were denied to the Libyan people during the rule of dictatorship. In addition to building efficient public and private institutions and funds for social care, integration and solidarity, the state will guarantee the rights and empowerment of women in all legal, political, economic and cultural spheres.
    d. A constitutional civil state which respects the sanctity of religious doctrine and condemns intolerance, extremism and violence that are manufactured by certain political, social or economic interests. The state to which we aspire will denounce violence, terrorism, intolerance and cultural isolation; while respecting human rights, rules and principles of citizenship and the rights of minorities and those most vulnerable. Every individual will enjoy the full rights of citizenship, regardless of colour, gender, ethnicity or social status.
    8. Build a democratic Libya whose international and regional relationships will be based upon:
    a. The embodiment of democratic values and institutions which respects its neighbours, builds partnerships and recognises the independence and sovereignty of other nations. The state will also seek to enhance regional integration and international co-operation through its participation with members of the international community in achieving international peace and security.
    b. A state which will uphold the values of international justice, citizenship, the respect of international humanitarian law and human rights declarations, as well as condemning authoritarian and despotic regimes. The interests and rights of foreign nationals and companies will be protected. Immigration, residency and citizenship will be managed by government institutions, respecting the principles and rights of political asylum and public liberties.
    c. A state which will join the international community in rejecting and denouncing racism, discrimination and terrorism while strongly supporting peace, democracy and freedom.


    A vision of a democratic Libya | The Libyan Interim National Council

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Attacking Libya sans the approval of anyone is hardly 'conservative'. As well, neither BHO or anyone else appears to know who will take Gadaffi's place. That's not a conservative position either.

    The point is that BHO is behaving in a manner usually reserved for Left Wing criticisms of the Right, without ever considering that Dr. Strangelove could be a Leftist,
    Let's see.

    Does the phrase "war of choice" apply only to Republicans? Apparently. No one is using it in this instance.

    Does the phrase "nation building" apply only to Republicans? Apparently. What else can it be called when the "President" takes sides in a civil war in which both sides are completely inimical to the United States?

    Does the phrase "Obama lied and people died" have any legs? It should. Obama is killin people in Libya right now.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    The War Powers Act was passed in 1973 and the only President who broke it previously was Bill Clinton over Kosovao, but at least he presented an argument as to why he was sidestepping the law.
    The United States had no business intervening in what was never anythin but a minor regional conflict of no importance to the United States. If France or Britain or Germany wanted to intervene they should have been told to go have fun, but under no circumstances would the United States become involved.

    Clinton needed an excuse to upstage the Cox Report, is why he pushed the US into Kosovo.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    Does the US or any other country have the right to determine who is in charge of another nation? ..if, so why?
    Oh, certainly, when the other nation is a totalitarian despotism. That is not a legitimate government selected by the people, and if the despot can ascend his throne by force of arms, he has no moral basis for objecting when someone else uses force of arms to pull him down.

    Democracies cannot legitimately war against each other for the purpose of overthrowing governments, but any democracy can, quite legitimately, elect to overthrow any dictatorship. That's if, of course, the democratic process is used to promote and engage the war. By exceeding the 60 day limit, the "President" is stepping outside the democratic process and showing himself to be a despot, not an official subject to the laws of the nation.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    I think the war powers act is stupid in the first place. It shouldn't even exist. It should be the congress approves a declaration of war, or that's it, they don't go anywhere. Of course in extreme circumstances, like if we are suddenly attacked, the President doesn't need anything from congress to be able to retaliate within minutes.

    I do think Obama is very hypocritical to say Bush was violating it, but I think we should lay off Biden. I don't think he likes this very much. He's been at odds with the President's foreign policy for a while, like with Afghanistan.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Gargantuan View Post
    I think the war powers act is stupid in the first place. It shouldn't even exist. It should be the congress approves a declaration of war, or that's it, they don't go anywhere. Of course in extreme circumstances, like if we are suddenly attacked, the President doesn't need anything from congress to retaliate within minutes, but of course a formal declaration is necessary for sending our troops anywhere overseas.

    I do think Obama is very hypocritical to say Bush was violating it, but I think we should lay off Biden. I don't think he likes this very much. He's been at odds with the President's foreign policy for a while, like with Afghanistan.
    I actually agree with you concerning congress. While I don't see this as equal to what Bush did, I do wish more republicans saw the problem when Bush was invading two countries. War should have to be declared before we engage in it, and that should be true regardless of who is president.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    A vision of a democratic Libya
    So it is a "vision" and has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.

    It's like a campaign promise designed to get the desired response from the West.

    It's bunk!

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    Re: White House: Limited Role in Libya Means No Need to Get Congressional Authorizati

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    So it is a "vision" and has nothing whatsoever to do with reality.

    It's like a campaign promise designed to get the desired response from the West.

    It's bunk!
    Maybe it is bunk maybe isn't unless you have a crystal ball or something.

    In the mean time I do think we should help them achieve this vision that they started on their own.

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