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Thread: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Ya know, I gotta say, having gotten to the point where we can predict future sexuality in small children with extremely high accuracy based on the findings of these studies, I really think it's a closed case.

    While it's true we may not understand all of the mechanisms at work here, it's not true that it's still up for debate. There is no evidence that it's chosen, and tons of evidence that it's not. We can even predict it based on physical characteristics. C'mon.

    I agree that it doesn't really matter to the debate of whether or not they deserve equal rights. I don't know why I get caught up in it. The ignorance bugs me.

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    That is why I often ask people who argue that it is a choice to actually define choice.
    Yeah, I know, but even defining choice doesn't necessarily give you an advantage. Asking them to define the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior, does.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Huh? First off, a belief in God is not anymore testable than a belief in vampires or leprechauns. A claim which cannot be tested, cannot be support by evidence or falsified by evidence. In other words, I have just as much reason to believe in vampires as I have to believe in God and there is just as much evidence to support the existence of vampires as there is to support the existence of God.

    The Bible on the other hand, or the so called "Word of God" holds many testable claims. For example is it possible to build a boat out of wood that could hold two of every animal on the planet? No it is not.

    As far as our understanding of sexual orientation, at our current level of technology we can only rely upon self report, involuntary physiological arousal (erections and vaginal lubrication), and behavior to arbitrarily categorize people for study. From doing so, scientists have observed certain physical traits more common among those placed in the gay category than in the straight category. To the exclusion of a genetic sequence to explain them, this would suggest a set of epigenetic factors. Other studies have supported this position. In fact, one study found that people could predict a young child's future sexual orientation with startling accuracy.

    So would I say there is more evidence to support the latter than the former? Yes.
    Oh I see, you donít think an all powerful being could make whatever happened in the bible come to fruition but you think man can and has already explained the reasons people are born gay? Pardon me while I chuckle for a second.

    God is or he isnít. If he is, he can pretty much do whatever the hell he wants even if jack wad engineers canít explain it. To say it canít be tested is rather arrogant of you in my opinion. People have been testing for ghosts, ESP and all kinds of crap for years so you are blowing smoke when you say it canít be tested. Good grief, you are trying to convince me that something is scientifically ďlikelyĒ based upon these kinds of BS studies so donít tell me something canít be tested.

    You saying there is more evidence that gayness is a birth defect is like me claiming I won this debate because I tried harder than you; it is completely speculative, biased and unworthy of the bits required to type it.

    Now, if you donít have anything more than skewed statistics (I can turn on Fox News or MSNBC and get those all day long) letís get down to the proof and cut the statistical cancer causing cell morphing crystal ball reading science and talk proof.

    You have none.

    Now, let me offend a few people by asking a tough question: If it could be proven that a baby was going to be gay if it was born, would you support a parent aborting that fetus before it becomes a gay human?

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yeah, I know, but even defining choice doesn't necessarily give you an advantage. Asking them to define the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior, does.
    All that does is prove that they think that sexual attraction is an irrelevant factor. They deem that it is the sexual behavior that is wrong and that accepting an identity based on sexual attraction is simply a political gimmick.

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Oh I see, you don’t think an all powerful being could make whatever happened in the bible come to fruition but you think man can and has already explained the reasons people are born gay? Pardon me while I chuckle for a second.
    That isn't what I posted. I argued that there is greater evidence to support an epigenetic cause for homosexuality than there is to support a Christian God. I didn't argue that there isn't a God, or that it is impossible for such a thing to exist. I did argue that the Bible is fallible, which I could come up with countless examples to justify if you wish to take the discussion down that route. I also argued that at least one study has shown that it is possible to predict the sexual orientation of young children.

    I'm sorry, but perhaps you should go back and read what I have posted carefully. Your eagerness to take an adversarial tone with me has clearly blinded your ability to engage me in a coherent debate.

    What I find particularly funny is you have argued, long before I even posted any specific study, that it is biased and distorted. That says a lot about how biased and distorted you are. Without even seeing the studies firsthand, you challenge their objectivity by being completely without objectivity. You have clearly lost this debate since you cannot support your assertions and you are attacking evidence which you have not yet even seen.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-24-11 at 03:40 AM.

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    All that does is prove that they think that sexual attraction is an irrelevant factor. They deem that it is the sexual behavior that is wrong and that accepting an identity based on sexual attraction is simply a political gimmick.
    Which is very easily proven wrong and a poorly constructed argument.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by GPS_Flex View Post
    Now, let me offend a few people by asking a tough question: If it could be proven that a baby was going to be gay if it was born, would you support a parent aborting that fetus before it becomes a gay human?
    Since I support the choice to abort, yes, I would agree with this position. It would be hypocritical to not.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Which is very easily proven wrong and a poorly constructed argument.
    Oh really? Okay, I'm arguing that sexual attraction is an irrelevant factor since it can only really be discerned from self report and that the concept of sexual orientation is simply a political gimmick of accepting an identity based on sexual attraction.

    Please prove me wrong and demonstrate how my argument is poorly constructed.

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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Oh really? Okay, I'm arguing that sexual attraction is an irrelevant factor since it can only really be discerned from self report and that the concept of sexual orientation is simply a political gimmick of accepting an identity based on sexual attraction.

    Please prove me wrong and demonstrate how my argument is poorly constructed.
    Hmmm... let's see, I could go this direction...

    1) The fact that sexual attraction can be diserned from self report is completely relevant and dismissing it denies the definition of sexual orientation. You do not get to create definitions.
    2) Sexual orientation is well established as being a pattern of behaviors associated with attraction, romance, and emotion associated with the opposite, the same, or both genders. Again, you have no standing in redefining the term.

    That was easy... of course, I could go THIS direction...

    If you make the claim that sexual orientation is irrelevant, than ALL sexual orientation is irrelevant. Therefore, arguing sexual orientation in this debate is a red herring and the argument itself is irrelevant.

    Take your pick.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #370
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    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    1) The fact that sexual attraction can be diserned from self report is completely relevant and dismissing it denies the definition of sexual orientation. You do not get to create definitions.
    Well I could argue that I'm not creating a definition, only arguing that sexual orientation is a politically created social construction. I could also argue that this is evidenced by the fact that the terms "homosexual" and "heterosexual" were coined by psychologists in the early 20th century and prior to conceiving of homosexuality as a mental illness, it was not considered a sexual identity as it is today but simply a behavior or character flaw.

    2) Sexual orientation is well established as being a pattern of behaviors associated with attraction, romance, and emotion associated with the opposite, the same, or both genders. Again, you have no standing in redefining the term.
    For the sake of this discussion, I am not redefining the term, but simply rejecting the concept outright. What evidential standing was there for creating the concept to begin with?

    If you make the claim that sexual orientation is irrelevant, than ALL sexual orientation is irrelevant. Therefore, arguing sexual orientation in this debate is a red herring and the argument itself is irrelevant.
    Within this discussion, I can accept that option. Then there is no heterosexual or homosexual. Everyone has the same sexual identity, which is a procreative sexual identity, but some people engage in sexual behaviors outside of that norm.
    Last edited by CriticalThought; 05-24-11 at 04:04 AM.

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