Page 13 of 47 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast
Results 121 to 130 of 470

Thread: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

  1. #121
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    yeah, i re-read that and realized that socializing and socializing have two separate meanings that I was going to have to delineate.

    socializing in the following context - kids learn to share, to get along, to work in teams, to accept direction, to interact with each other in a way that minimizes conflict and maximizes their ability to engage in healthy adult relationships in the future - yes. that's a function of school, sports teams, churches, so on and so forth - anywhere where groups of people interact.

    socialization in the following context - social tropes, competing value systems, - here whether homosexuality is an inherently inferior, equitable, or superior alternative to heterosexuality -the governing and clashing system of beliefs about society and the best forms for it to function in... no. A good rule of thumb might be (given the instant translation of many social issues into political ones) if the parties fight about it, then we shouldn't teach one of their set of assumptions - and certainly not at the ages where children are most impressionable to their teachers. High schoolers are going to go with their friends, are more independent, and have had a lengthier exposure to their family or community value system. But here we are talking about elementary students. It absolutely smacks of Dewey.
    It does seem that gays are quickly approaching legal equality. Now they can serve in the military openly. In some States they are getting State recognition of there marriages. So I really see no reason to shelter children form homosexuality. As a matter of fact I think it would be a disservice to shelter them from the obvious.

  2. #122
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    then you are attempting to push the socialization (second meaning) of children in line with your preferences. I could just as easily argue that we are doing them a disservice if we don't teach children about the moral dangers of promiscuity and homosexuality - and both of us would be arguing from our assumptions.

    so that becomes my question: why should either of us have the right to utilize government to force the others' children to absorb our assumptions?
    Last edited by cpwill; 05-21-11 at 07:03 PM.

  3. #123
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    then you are attempting to push the socialization (second meaning) of children in line with your preferences. I could just as easily argue that we are doing them a disservice if we don't teach children about the moral dangers of promiscuity and homosexuality - and both of us would be arguing from our assumptions.

    so that becomes my question: why should either of us have the right to utilize government to force the others' children to absorb our assumptions?

    Morality has nothing to do with it gays are gaining legal parity with heterosexuals and children are going to be faced with it in real life. Like in the military. And I have no problem with teaching about STD's and other communicable diseases. There is no morality about it.

  4. #124
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    it absolutely is a moral issue - that's why it's so contentious. Children will be faced with it in real life - which doesn't mean that it belongs in the schools. Children will also be exposed to voting in real life - perhaps we should have teachers influencing kids vote?

  5. #125
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    it absolutely is a moral issue - that's why it's so contentious. Children will be faced with it in real life - which doesn't mean that it belongs in the schools. Children will also be exposed to voting in real life - perhaps we should have teachers influencing kids vote?

    How do you teach kids about voting with out influencing them?

  6. #126
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    I can think of one specific point in my school years where homosexuality came up. It was in high school, but I can also see it coming up in Jr. High or Middle School too the way it was discussed in my class.

    We were debating gay rights. The teacher was a complete twit on how debates should work, but it still was a class discussion. And I could also see it coming up in a class discussion on current events or even something like talking about what they did on a summer vacation. What if someone's family went to a gay rights event or their mothers or fathers got married or the family went to a same sex wedding? Those might have been the only things that happened to the kid over the summer and the other kids all got to discuss what they did with the class. It wouldn't be fair to exclude a kid or, worse, make them find something else to talk about just because some people want to stick their fingers in their ears and continuously chant "la la la, gays don't exist, la la la, just don't talk about them and they'll go away, la la la".

    Completely ridiculous law.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #127
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    How do you teach kids about voting with out influencing them?
    you don't teach them modern political stances.

    my AP Political Science teacher, for example, taught us about how the modern welfare state was the natural conclusion of the founding fathers dreams, how republicans wanted to control all of our moral decisions, and how the election of Bush could be seen as an interesting holdover from America's history with a natural aristocracy coming from the British Tradition.

    now don't get me wrong - i loved her, she was a brilliant teacher, and I learned alot from her. I'm also a bit of a natural contrarian, and while I'm pretty sure that "pushing students to think her way" wouldn't have been something she would have consciously labeled as a reason for her to speak to her kids in the way she did, if it was, she failed with me (though not with a few others). She no doubt thought she was just teaching us How It Is in an objective manner so as to provoke us to think.

    But that was senior year of high school - where a bit more latitude can be fine. When I came home from my 7th Grade AP Social Studies, and my father asked what we had learned in school today, and I replied that we had learned that Muslims want to take over the world and kill anyone not of "the Book" who doesn't convert, he was fairly irritated. And not just because that was the precise opposite of how he wanted to teach me to address other faith systems - but because the "more latitude and/or thought provoking ways to address complex and contested issues" sort of approach doesn't belong at that age level.

    have the kids read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, and compare the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to each to see how the two sides interacted, who won where, etc. no need to teach them about modern political battles - they will get that plenty at home and then at college.

  8. #128
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I can think of one specific point in my school years where homosexuality came up. It was in high school, but I can also see it coming up in Jr. High or Middle School too the way it was discussed in my class.

    We were debating gay rights. The teacher was a complete twit on how debates should work, but it still was a class discussion. And I could also see it coming up in a class discussion on current events or even something like talking about what they did on a summer vacation. What if someone's family went to a gay rights event or their mothers or fathers got married or the family went to a same sex wedding? Those might have been the only things that happened to the kid over the summer and the other kids all got to discuss what they did with the class. It wouldn't be fair to exclude a kid or, worse, make them find something else to talk about just because some people want to stick their fingers in their ears and continuously chant "la la la, gays don't exist, la la la, just don't talk about them and they'll go away, la la la".

    Completely ridiculous law.
    no one is getting excluded. as i understand it, the teachers are just gagged.

  9. #129
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Last Seen
    09-24-17 @ 04:38 AM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    29,261

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    you don't teach them modern political stances.
    mmmmkay.


    have the kids read the Federalist and Anti-Federalist papers, and compare the Constitution and the Bill of Rights to each to see how the two sides interacted, who won where, etc. no need to teach them about modern political battles - they will get that plenty at home and then at college.
    And this doesn't influence them in any way what so ever?


    BTW States rights are still an issue.

  10. #130
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,107

    Re: Tenn. Senate OKs ban on teaching of homosexuality

    the current battles over the correct boundaries between states and the federal government isn't required; there is plenty of material in our first century - the civil war for goodness sakes - to allow the students to fully weigh the Federalists and Anti-Federalists arguments with regards to real-world situations involving competing rights and responsibilities. My AP US History Teacher had a brilliant segment on this using the Jackson Administrations' fight with South Carolina.

Page 13 of 47 FirstFirst ... 3111213141523 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •