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Thread: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergolfpar View Post
    Thanks for the insight, but no I did not miss it. The CRS like the CBO are the nation's calculator--you plug in the data, it spits out the results independent of other contributing variables like opportunity costs etc... These 'think tanks' do not have the ability to make assumptions with a high degree of accuracy. As a result they data mine to the extent that variables are known. For example, CRS has no way of accounting for how an oil company will react should the Federal government eliminate the tax subsidies. The decision makers in the oil business are not static in their thinking, they will find a way to reduce their tax liabilities or adjust for the lost revenue. Unknown variables such as how an oil company will react never get plugged into the data model, thus can never be accounted for as accurate analysis. So when the CRS says that gas prices will not be affected, take what they say with a large 'grain of salt'. In the meantime, I will rely on my own logic and wisdom when assessing how an industry like oil will react under such scenarios, independent of the CRS.
    So we should accept your opinion over that of the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service?
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergolfpar View Post
    You still have failed to answer my questions?
    Because paying for services that you benifit from is the right thing to do instead of being a free-rider.
    As for the phrase 'evil maximum', I have spent some time enlightening you, maybe you could reciprocate? Then again, maybe not
    Google the phrase. Its better if you read about it then me telling you about.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    So we should accept your opinion over that of the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service?
    Until you can provide a link directing me to the CRS's research AND methodology of their research--then yes, my wisdom and logic should be weighed with more authority. Provide me the link (I looked could not find the study--all I saw was something about Harry Reid) I would be more than willing to read it. Until I see such evidence to the contrary, I stand behind my position...in fact I would be willing to wager I am correct.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Because paying for services that you benifit from is the right thing to do instead of being a free-rider.
    ...And if we all were benefiting from the services of reduced gas prices, by virtue of oil tax subsidies, does that not make us both 'free-riders'? Sarcasm aside, from a tax standpoint by applying your logic, then every time you sign your 1040 after taking a personal exemption, you too are a free rider. Essentially, there is no difference between these so-called tax subsidies and personal exemptions on a tax return.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergolfpar View Post
    ...And if we all were benefiting from the services of reduced gas prices, by virtue of oil tax subsidies, does that not make us both 'free-riders'? Sarcasm aside, from a tax standpoint by applying your logic, then every time you sign your 1040 after taking a personal exemption, you too are a free rider. Essentially, there is no difference between these so-called tax subsidies and personal exemptions on a tax return.
    There is a very large difference. The difference being that the personal exemption is meant to not tax for your upkeep. The tax subsides/breaks are only there to increase profit margins.

    And since someone PMed me with the info that google sucks right now, Evil maximum is a phrase repeated throughout The Wealth of Nations, something like 40 different times in various contexts by all lead to the same conclusion, Capitalism only works to benefit of everyone if people operate morally otherwise it only operates in the favor of the powerful.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    There is a very large difference. The difference being that the personal exemption is meant to not tax for your upkeep. The tax subsides/breaks are only there to increase profit margins.

    What the....? Where did you get this gem of twisted thinking?

    Evil maximum is a phrase repeated throughout The Wealth of Nations, something like 40 different times in various contexts by all lead to the same conclusion, Capitalism only works to benefit of everyone if people operate morally otherwise it only operates in the favor of the powerful.
    Was Adam Smith anti capitalist then?

    j-mac
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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Was Adam Smith anti capitalist then?
    No, he was anti evil maximum which is pursing profit above all else, even morality.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergolfpar View Post
    Until you can provide a link directing me to the CRS's research AND methodology of their research--then yes, my wisdom and logic should be weighed with more authority. Provide me the link (I looked could not find the study--all I saw was something about Harry Reid) I would be more than willing to read it. Until I see such evidence to the contrary, I stand behind my position...in fact I would be willing to wager I am correct.
    Can't find a link to their research so I must decide whether to believe the Congressional Research Service with their "staff of approximately 900 employees includes lawyers, economists, reference librarians, and social, natural, and physical scientists," or, some conservative guy on a political forum. Thanks for helping me make my decision!
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevergolfpar View Post
    EXACTLY SOLLETICA YOU JUST NAILED IT ON THE HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Your second sentence is profound. Now to lead you down the road to enlightenment, which of these costs from a business sense is income taxation? Is it not a production cost? If you agree that income taxes are indeed a production cost
    They aren't. Production costs are things like wages, rent, insurance, concrete pouring costs, etc.--anything that is an input to producing the product.

    Taxes are not an input.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    They aren't. Production costs are things like wages, rent, insurance, concrete pouring costs, etc.--anything that is an input to producing the product.

    Taxes are not an input.
    Cost-of-production theory of value - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    In economics, the cost-of-production theory of value is the theory that the price of an object or condition is determined by the sum of the cost of the resources that went into making it. The cost can compose any of the factors of production (including labor, capital, or land) and taxation.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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