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Thread: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by FilmFestGuy View Post
    Take programs away from retarded adults and poor kids; but line the pockets of CEOs who already make millions.
    That is part of the GOP platform...that along with Millions in aid to protect the fetus but not a dime for the child.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Let me correct myself on this post. I skimmed a couple of articles earlier and was mistaken that there were two different bills. One talked about a dual-capacity taxpayer proposal only, leading me to believe it was a separate bill, but was really a part of the tax repeal bill.

    However, it would still not double tax oil companies profits made in other countries. What the oil companies were doing is getting foreign governments to treat royalties as corporate income tax - as evidenced by Bahrain's zero corporate income tax, but a 46 percent tax on petroleum-related income. That would allow that country's 'income tax' to be treated as tax credit in the U.S. (dollar for dollar income tax deduction) rather than a standard deduction (percentage of a dollar). The proposal was to allow oil companies the tax credit for the same income tax rate as other corporations pay in that country and not the inflated income tax reported.

    But that is all moot, as the bill only had a majority approval and not the super majority vote it needed.
    “We just simply don’t know how to govern” - Rep. Steve Womack (R-AR) a member of the House Budget Committee

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I'm not.

    Taxes are a cost to business. The higher the tax increase, the more it hurts the profit margin, the more the effect ripples out. Be it higher priced goods, laid off employees, less investment into the business (that would purchase of new equipment, or expansion of existing)...

    Taxes are an artificial cost placed on businesses, and like ANY cost, it has consequences.
    Taxes are a proportional deduction from profits, not a production cost.

    For industries in a competitive market (where there are multiple suppliers), taxes on businesses in that industry cause a left shift of the supply curve (due to the reduction in no. of suppliers) for the goods produced by those businesses, thereby increasing the price of those goods.

    This does not happen in cartels or oligopolies like the oil industry, where prices are set by the firms themselves (instead of by market consensus) at a point that optimizes gross profit based on current production costs and demand for the item it produces (i. e. crude).

    The theory behind this is likely too complicated for you. If you went to school and learned economics (instead of say, "learning" it from FOXNews), you would know it.

    Suffice it to say, if taxation indeed had zero effect on the oil companies profits because they could merely unload the extra cost onto consumers, then oil companies would not be aggressively lobbying against the increases, which they continually do.

    This notion of taxes on oil firms causing high gas prices is just as kooky as conservatives' previously idiotic notion that lifting the offshore drilling ban would cause gas prices to fall.

    As (educated) liberals expected, it did not happen.
    Last edited by solletica; 05-19-11 at 12:35 AM.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Taxes are a proportional deduction from profits, not a production cost.
    It's a COST of doing business, and companies find ways to offset that cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    For industries in a competitive market (where there are multiple suppliers), taxes on businesses in that industry cause a left shift of the supply curve (due to the reduction in no. of suppliers) for the goods produced by those businesses, thereby increasing the price of those goods.

    This does not happen in cartels or oligopolies like the oil industry, where prices are set by the firms themselves (instead of by market consensus) at a point that optimizes gross profit based on current production costs and demand for the item it produces (i. e. crude).

    The theory behind this is likely too complicated for you. If you went to school and learned economics (instead of say, "learning" it from FOXNews), you would know it.

    Suffice it to say, if taxation indeed had zero effect on the oil companies profits because they could merely unload the extra cost onto consumers, then oil companies would not be aggressively lobbying against the increases, which they continually do.

    This notion of taxes on oil firms causing high gas prices is just as kooky as conservatives' previously idiotic notion that lifting the offshore drilling ban would cause gas prices to fall.

    As (educated) liberals expected, it did not happen.
    You insult, attack and throw out disparaging remarks... oh and you're way off base. Oil Companies don't set prices, the markets do, where did you go to school? You should demand a refund.
    Climate, changes. It takes a particularly uneducated population to buy into the idea that it's their fault climate is changing and further political solutions can fix it.



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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    I'm not.

    Taxes are a cost to business. The higher the tax increase, the more it hurts the profit margin, the more the effect ripples out. Be it higher priced goods, laid off employees, less investment into the business (that would purchase of new equipment, or expansion of existing)...

    Taxes are an artificial cost placed on businesses, and like ANY cost, it has consequences.
    Does that mean you believe businesses shouldn't pay any taxes?

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Are we talking about subsidies or tax breaks? I agree, we shouldn't be providing financial assistance to oil companies, I agree with you there. But to me that's significantly different then charging them less in taxes or, as one poster stated and if its true, attempting to tax them on money on income that wasn't even earned in the United States and is already taxed elsewhere.
    OMG

    Any decrease in tax paid by a firm is offset by increases paid by others. In other words, tax breaks are merely money that comes out of your pocket and goes into the firm's.

    If you still don't get it, consider this. Suppose you and your neighbor are both single and made $50K last year, and your tax rate was 15%. Then both of you would pay $7500 in taxes this year and be left with $42,500 after-tax income. But then let's say Uncle Sam gave your neighbor a subsidy check for $3000, but nothing to you. Then your neighbor would be left with $45,500 while you would still have the $42,500.

    Now what if Uncle Sam instead did not give your neighbor any subsidies, but instead just gave him a 6% tax break, making his tax only 9%, while yours is left at 15%. Now your neighbor would pay only $4500 in taxes, while you'd still pay the $7500, meaning he's be left with $45,500 after-tax income, while you'd be left w/$42,500.

    . . .just like what happened when he got the subsidy.

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    It's a COST of doing business, and companies find ways to offset that cost.


    You insult, attack and throw out disparaging remarks...
    Sorry, you're supposed to know basic concepts of economics if you're going to talk about it. But many conservatives evidently don't, which is likely why they fall for silly economic propoganda (i. e. "if we allow offshore drilling, gas prices will go down!") that later turn out to be untrue.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    oh and you're way off base. Oil Companies don't set prices, the markets do
    Wrong. Monopolies and oligopolies (cartels) control the price and set it based on demand. . .

    A monopoly chooses that price that maximizes the difference between total revenue and total cost.

    Monopoly - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Note the difference between a monopoly's price, and the equilibrium price in a competitive market. . .



    Monopoly - Potential Benefits from Monopoly

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Moderator's Warning:
    Senate blocks bill repealing  billion in oil tax breaksCease the personal attacks and focus only on the topic.
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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    All tax hikes, and this would be a tax hike, aren't paid by the company. Economics 101. Raise taxes on "eeeeevvvvviiiiilllll" oil companies, and they pass that on to us. Not really a brilliant move to begin with, however... in this moment when gas prices are effecting EVERYONE, who gets hurt more when gas prices go up? Hmmm?
    From the article:

    "Some GOP lawmakers argued that the bill would increase gas prices further. However, the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service concluded that eliminating the tax breaks would be unlikely to result in higher gasoline prices, which are influenced by a host of factors. The report said the bill would raise about $1.2 billion in 2012. By comparison, the five oil companies had combined revenues of $1.5 trillion last year."
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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    Re: Senate blocks bill repealing $2 billion in oil tax breaks

    Quote Originally Posted by liblady View Post
    i did not know about this study.....but find a little comfort in this:

    In sum, this report finds that providing access to Head Start has benefits for both 3-year-olds and 4-year-olds in the cognitive, health, and parenting domains, and for 3-year-olds in the social-emotional domain.

    thanks for pointing this out. perhaps this program needs to be reconsidered, although i can't imagine why it would not benefit kids. makes no sense to me.
    If one removes the biased veil that The Heritage Foundation article put on the report, a much different picture comes through:

    "We are improving staff training, raising standards, creating mentoring programs to improve skills of Head Start professionals, building partnerships with schools to sustain Head Start's positive impact, and we are going to fund only high-performing programs.

    The result: Head Start simply isn't the program it was when that study was conducted. Denying federal funding would only serve to hurt 60,000 poor children and hamper our efforts to keep improving what is already a vastly improved program.

    Since 1965, Head Start has strengthened families and communities by helping more than 27 million poor children prepare for success in school and in life. We intend to build on that legacy by making the program better than ever."
    Obama administration has plans for Head Start improvements - USATODAY.com
    Last edited by Catawba; 05-19-11 at 04:31 AM.
    Treat the earth well: it was not given to you by your parents, it was loaned to you by your children. We do not inherit the Earth from our Ancestors, we borrow it from our Children. ~ Ancient American Indian Proverb

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