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Thread: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Tehran is also heavily involved in Nicaragua, which is common knowledge there but seldom mentioned elsewhere. I did find this though.

    Iran, Nicaragua deepen links despite U.S. concerns | Reuters

    Venezuela is also closely involved there.

    Venezuela to help Nicaragua after U.S. rebuff - CNN.com

    Ortega, despite his public claims to the contrary prior to the last election there, is no friend of the United States. The Nicaraguan people are quite concerned about this evolving situation, and the American government should be as well.

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    I don't see Chavez as a threat on his own but Iran has had "Radicals" at the helm since their revolution, and they are seeking their own Armageddon, so we can never be complacent.


    As is almost always the case the people of other Nations are no threat to us and if they do claim to hate us it's because of propaganda or missteps by ignorant leaders, like Obama going on an apology tour of the world.

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    The use of stealth choppers, violating a country's sovereignty, provoking or calling out dictators to step down or else be killed/assassinated are not helping ease the tensions. On the contrary, it will accelerate the output of their (rebel states) means of nuclear production.

    The US has gone down (and still is) a path in which the use of force has become a chronic feature of U.S. foreign policy. This practice must stop
    We got bin Laden with those stealth choppers. That works for me, and if attacked again, we should do this again, only faster, and make damn sure that terrorist assholes know that there will be consequences for their actions.
    The ghost of Jack Kevorkian for President's Physician: 2016

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by ricksfolly View Post
    You or I not being privy to top secret foreign policy, can't possibly know what is going on. All we can do is make uneducated guesses and hope for the best...

    Our power to make things happen stops at the ends of our finger tips.

    ricksfolly
    I am libertarian at heart. Do the hell what you want so long as exercising your rights and freedoms doesn't infringe on someone else's rights and freedoms. That applies to individuals and nations. If we believe in individual freedom, other nations have the right to decide what form of government they want.

    As a consequence, we can't easily do what is in our best interest. We would be better served if we stopped trying to police the world.

    If a country is against us, they may not be on our friend list, but at least they aren't on our enemy ledger. Competition is ok. Trying to beat us at a trade deal is not the work of an enemy. It's just competition and keeps us on our toes. Killing Americans and blowing up our precious stuff is different. Helping those who kill us is different. Now you're interfering with our rights and freedoms and in self defense, those governments, or nations if necessary, should be stomped.

    If these countries prefer a dictator like Gadaffi, Chavez, king, emir or a dumbass like Obama, then go for it. Just don't **** with our people or suffer the consequences. If that means supporting a lesbian dictator who leaves our people alone, then I don't have a problem with it if the alternative is an anti-American government.

    Live and let die

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I am libertarian at heart. Do the hell what you want so long as exercising your rights and freedoms doesn't infringe on someone else's rights and freedoms. That applies to individuals and nations. If we believe in individual freedom, other nations have the right to decide what form of government they want.

    As a consequence, we can't easily do what is in our best interest. We would be better served if we stopped trying to police the world.

    If a country is against us, they may not be on our friend list, but at least they aren't on our enemy ledger. Competition is ok. Trying to beat us at a trade deal is not the work of an enemy. It's just competition and keeps us on our toes. Killing Americans and blowing up our precious stuff is different. Helping those who kill us is different. Now you're interfering with our rights and freedoms and in self defense, those governments, or nations if necessary, should be stomped.

    If these countries prefer a dictator like Gadaffi, Chavez, king, emir or a dumbass like Obama, then go for it. Just don't **** with our people or suffer the consequences. If that means supporting a lesbian dictator who leaves our people alone, then I don't have a problem with it if the alternative is an anti-American government.

    Live and let die
    There will certainly be more anti American governments following the purges in the Middle East, and anti Israeli as well. This has the markings of the revolution in Iran when the western media turned on the Shah, just as they did on Mubarak, but the consequences turned disastrous for everyone except militant Muslims.

    And while no one cared for Gadaffi, we should wait until we see who his replacement might be before the celebrations begin. We could be replacing the devil we know with one we don't.

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    You're right, my initial notion that it was found out by the JPost was incorrect, it seems from the best I can translate (and adimttedly taht's poor) Die Welt found it out from...Die Welt? And JPost, supposedly a legitimate news source, was the only legitimate news source to seemingly jump on it as news because it apparently went wonderful with their journalistically sound cataloging of the "Iranian Threat" that they broadcast with a banner right through the middle of the story.
    I highly doubt most folks in London would be very apprehensive about a hurricane in the Gulf veering towards Louisiana. But I’ll bet you a Cajun dinner that newspapers and media outlets in New Orleans would have extensive in-depth coverage. Iranian missiles don’t overly concern Westerners because they can’t (as of yet) affect you from Iran. But it’s a far different situation for Israel which is well within Shahab-3 range. Naturally, the people of Israel are going to be more interested in Iranian missile articles (from Die Welt, Reuters, etc.) than folks in London and New Orleans. Hence the more in-depth news and opinion coverage. It’s no secret that even “legitimate newspapers” pander to their demographic base.

    I don’t know if the Die Welt story is true or not. Neither does JP which merely re-printed the Die Welt story. Reminds me in some ways of the destroyed Syrian nuclear reactor. US government officials claimed for days that they knew very little about the air-strike or the target, which was a lie. They knew everything. Exterior and interior photographs of the facility had literally been shoved in their faces. The evidence presented to them was overwhelming. Yet it took months for the true inside story to be fleshed out in the Western mainstream media.

    I hope the Die Welt article isn’t true. But it wouldn’t really surprise me if Iran was involved in something risqué in Venezuela.

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    But missles potentially moving into range to threaten the U.S. is an interest of the U.S.

    Your point about the U.S. also furthers my point. It doens't surprise me for a country...be it the U.S., Israel, or Iran...to leak or withhold information...be it partial, fraudulent, or complete...that furthers their purposes or desires or motivations. Which is why I was skeptical when the only legitimate news sites carrying this is a German newspaper that is very pro-Israel and an Israeli paper...and that's it. Am I saying that it can't possibly be true? Absolutely not. It wouldn't shock me in the least if it was true or if Iran was trying this.

    I'm just saying I'm not going to act like it is absolute gospel truth when there's legitimate motives and reasons to think otherwise, just as I generally would question a story that comes out of Franch that's negative about Israel that isn't picked up by any other legitimate source outside of something like Al-Jazera. If you want to talk hypothetically about the possability, sure thing. But to me it seems unwise to talk about it like a forgone fact.

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    But missles potentially moving into range to threaten the U.S. is an interest of the U.S.

    Your point about the U.S. also furthers my point. It doens't surprise me for a country...be it the U.S., Israel, or Iran...to leak or withhold information...be it partial, fraudulent, or complete...that furthers their purposes or desires or motivations. Which is why I was skeptical when the only legitimate news sites carrying this is a German newspaper that is very pro-Israel and an Israeli paper...and that's it. Am I saying that it can't possibly be true? Absolutely not. It wouldn't shock me in the least if it was true or if Iran was trying this.

    I'm just saying I'm not going to act like it is absolute gospel truth when there's legitimate motives and reasons to think otherwise, just as I generally would question a story that comes out of Franch that's negative about Israel that isn't picked up by any other legitimate source outside of something like Al-Jazera. If you want to talk hypothetically about the possability, sure thing. But to me it seems unwise to talk about it like a forgone fact.
    Let's just say, for the sake of arguement, that the JPost article is 100% true. I'm not so worried about mid-range missiles hitting the U.S., but I'm worried about what comes after that. Setting a precident and allowing mid-range missiles to go up will put us at risk in the future. Given Iran's interest in making the U.S. uncomfortable and feeding Chavez's ego in the region will simply make it worse. Chavez then gets to bully the rest of South America and bring them into line to spread his views of the world. Chavez challenging the U.S. now is a joke; let him go on and put in missiles, influence the countries around him --- in 10-15 years he will challenge the U.S., sabre rattle and be a little thorn in everyone's ass like North Korea. Best to nip this sort of stuff in the bud.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    Quote Originally Posted by ric27 View Post
    I am libertarian at heart. Do the hell what you want so long as exercising your rights and freedoms doesn't infringe on someone else's rights and freedoms. That applies to individuals and nations. If we believe in individual freedom, other nations have the right to decide what form of government they want.
    So, when Ahmadinajad (whatever) steal and election and violently suppresses the protests, is Iran getting the form of government it wants? Did Iraq under Hussein have the form of government it wanted? How do you define "it'?

    If these countries prefer a dictator like Gadaffi, Chavez, king, emir or a dumbass like Obama, then go for it. Just don't **** with our people or suffer the consequences. If that means supporting a lesbian dictator who leaves our people alone, then I don't have a problem with it if the alternative is an anti-American government.

    Live and let die
    "Prefer"?

    The definition of dictatorship is the majority being cowed by a thuggish minority.

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    Re: 'Die Welt': Iran building rocket bases in Venezuela

    whatever became of personal diplomacy with the leaders of iran, sans preconditions?

    obama's address to aipac, june, 08:

    We will also use all elements of American power to pressure Iran. I will do everything in my power to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. That starts with aggressive, principled diplomacy without self-defeating preconditions, but with a cleareyed understanding of our interests. We have no time to waste. We cannot unconditionally rule out an approach that could prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon. We have tried limited, piecemeal talks while we outsource the sustained work to our European allies. It is time for the United States to lead.

    There will be careful preparation. We will open up lines of communication, build an agenda, coordinate closely with our allies, and evaluate the potential for progress. Contrary to the claims of some, I have no interest in sitting down with our adversaries just for the sake of talking. But as president of the United States, I would be willing to lead tough and principled diplomacy with the appropriate Iranian leader at a time and place of my choosing — if, and only if, it can advance the interests of the United States.

    We will pursue this diplomacy with no illusions about the Iranian regime. Instead, we will present a clear choice. If you abandon your dangerous nuclear program, support for terror, and threats to Israel, there will be meaningful incentives — including the lifting of sanctions, and political and economic integration with the international community. If you refuse, we will ratchet up the pressure.
    Transcript: Obama's Speech at AIPAC : NPR

    obama's comprehensive foreign policy never made any sense

    he's unrealistic

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