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As Debt Limit Reached, Agreement Still Far Off .

danarhea

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The U.S. government is expected to hit the $14.294 trillion debt ceiling Monday, setting in motion an uncertain, 11-week political scramble to avoid a default.

The Treasury Department plans to announce Monday it will stop issuing and reinvesting government securities in certain government pension plans, part of a series of steps designed to delay a default until Aug. 2.

This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

Article is here.
 
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I don't think it's an ideological war. I think it's essential practice. We can't just keep making snap decisions, pushing things through because of impending doom. We have to make hard decisions and we have to make them before we agree to further debt. You can't buy a house and then decide how to budget for the mortgage payment. The government can't keep deciding to increase it's debt load without making a budget to pay it back. We've done that over and over again and it hasn't made things any better. Accountability needs to be made mandatory, and if we have to hold the debt ceiling hostage to make people compromise then perhaps that's what we should do. I would have encouraged the dems to do the same thing if they had taken that initiative the last time this vote came up....but they didn't.
 
I don't think it's an ideological war. I think it's essential practice. We can't just keep making snap decisions, pushing things through because of impending doom. We have to make hard decisions and we have to make them before we agree to further debt. You can't buy a house and then decide how to budget for the mortgage payment. The government can't keep deciding to increase it's debt load without making a budget to pay it back. We've done that over and over again and it hasn't made things any better. Accountability needs to be made mandatory, and if we have to hold the debt ceiling hostage to make people compromise then perhaps that's what we should do. I would have encouraged the dems to do the same thing if they had taken that initiative the last time this vote came up....but they didn't.

we also cannot default on our loans. right now, the republicans are grandstanding and hoping to make points for 2012. it ain't gonna work.
 
This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

Article is here.

So then its YOUR way or the highway?
 
we also cannot default on our loans. right now, the republicans are grandstanding and hoping to make points for 2012. it ain't gonna work.

Neither is just passing a bill and hoping we get to discuss the hard stuff later. By and large, if somebody has the balls to step up and do something to fix things in the long term they are going to take a huge hit in the short term. Which ever party is "blamed" with making those tough decisions will be the party who stays out of power until the benefits of those decisions start to be made clear. If the idiot vote is won by grandstanding let it happen, it'll be lost that way, too.

It's time to buckle down and swallow the medicine already. Serious talks and legislation need to be had and created yesterday to address entitlements, budgets, unnecessary/redundant departments and government employees, etc. Hard, unpopular decisions must be made. If this is what it takes then do it. But don't flip-flop when your bluff is called, ya know? Take a hard line and walk it, wherever it leads.
 
So then its YOUR way or the highway?

Nope, not at all. We can argue over ideology any time, but not here, where the economic well being of the United States is at stake. And make no mistake, it is the GOP that is attempting to hold America as a hostage here.
 
Neither is just passing a bill and hoping we get to discuss the hard stuff later. By and large, if somebody has the balls to step up and do something to fix things in the long term they are going to take a huge hit in the short term. Which ever party is "blamed" with making those tough decisions will be the party who stays out of power until the benefits of those decisions start to be made clear. If the idiot vote is won by grandstanding let it happen, it'll be lost that way, too.

It's time to buckle down and swallow the medicine already. Serious talks and legislation need to be had and created yesterday to address entitlements, budgets, unnecessary/redundant departments and government employees, etc. Hard, unpopular decisions must be made. If this is what it takes then do it. But don't flip-flop when your bluff is called, ya know? Take a hard line and walk it, wherever it leads.

there is no time right now to flesh out anything comprehensive and bipartisan. as i posted, grandstanding.
 
there is no time right now to flesh out anything comprehensive and bipartisan. as i posted, grandstanding.

There was plenty of time and the dems didn't come to the table. They've been talking about this for weeks, proposals have been made, an effort was put forth and the dems in the Senate (particularly) did little to nothing. I've read countless articles about republicans meeting with the president, but not with the dems in the house and senate. Why aren't the dems coming to the table?
 
Nope, not at all. We can argue over ideology any time, but not here, where the economic well being of the United States is at stake. And make no mistake, it is the GOP that is attempting to hold America as a hostage here.

that would actually be funny if it wasnt sad.

The GOP is making a lot of sense to a lot of people.
We have all heard this impending doom scenario over and over, for once someone has a solution.
It may not be a FIX ALL, but its nt kicking the can down the road.

Its time for some tough love.
and in case you havnt noticed, the "economic well being" of this country that you mention being at stake, doesnt look good under the status quo.
You want o pass it along to the next administration, then YOU do that.. have kids do you?
 
there is no time right now to flesh out anything comprehensive and bipartisan. as i posted, grandstanding.

WHEN is the time libby, after you're all set?
 
There was plenty of time and the dems didn't come to the table. They've been talking about this for weeks, proposals have been made, an effort was put forth and the dems in the Senate (particularly) did little to nothing. I've read countless articles about republicans meeting with the president, but not with the dems in the house and senate. Why aren't the dems coming to the table?

There is nothing to come to the table over. If we got rid of every single program that the US has, we would still need to raise the debt ceiling to pay for what we already borrowed. We owe this money. We need to pay it. While I would probably agree that some things need to be cut, this is neither the time nor place to argue it. We OWE for what we ALREADY borrowed.

Here is an analogy to what the GOP is attempting to shovel at the rest of us. The analogy is me. A while back, my credit card companies raised the interest rate on my cards, and made that rate retroactive to past purchases. IMHO, that was wrong. So I can demand that the credit card companies eliminate the increase for past purchases, or I will default on the debt I already legally owe. If I do that, then I am in a crapload of financial trouble. Same thing here. The US owes this money, and is responsible for paying it, no matter what transpires in the way of cost reduction in the future. What Republicans demand now is either change the way we do future expenditures, WITHOUT ANY DEBATE WHATSOEVER, or they are going to set our economy on fire, economic arson, so to speak. This speaks directly to the dishonesty of the demands that the GOP are making at this time. Like I said, now is not the time to threaten to crash and burn the economy. And like I said, if the GOP wants to act like babies and brats, let them do it on their own damn dime, not that of our country.
 
There was plenty of time and the dems didn't come to the table. They've been talking about this for weeks, proposals have been made, an effort was put forth and the dems in the Senate (particularly) did little to nothing. I've read countless articles about republicans meeting with the president, but not with the dems in the house and senate. Why aren't the dems coming to the table?

i think dana said it well.
 
and the Dems are bastions of honesty and fair play.. we know, we know :rolleyes:

Has nothing to do with accusations from either side that the other side isn't fair. It has everything to do with "we owe money NOW, so are we going to pay it?".
 
There is nothing to come to the table over. If we got rid of every single program that the US has, we would still need to raise the debt ceiling to pay for what we already borrowed. We owe this money. We need to pay it. While I would probably agree that some things need to be cut, this is neither the time nor place to argue it. We OWE for what we ALREADY borrowed.

Here is an analogy to what the GOP is attempting to shovel at the rest of us. The analogy is me. A while back, my credit card companies raised the interest rate on my cards, and made that rate retroactive to past purchases. IMHO, that was wrong. So I can demand that the credit card companies eliminate the increase for past purchases, or I will default on the debt I already legally owe. If I do that, then I am in a crapload of financial trouble. Same thing here. The US owes this money, and is responsible for paying it, no matter what transpires in the way of cost reduction in the future. What Republicans demand now is either change the way we do future expenditures, WITHOUT ANY DEBATE WHATSOEVER, or they are going to set our economy on fire, economic arson, so to speak. This speaks directly to the dishonesty of the demands that the GOP are making at this time. Like I said, now is not the time to threaten to crash and burn the economy. And like I said, if the GOP wants to act like babies and brats, let them do it on their own damn dime, not that of our country.

The US is spending several billion dollars a day with money it doesn't have. They were depending on the Chinese for a while but in fact the Chinese won't lend the US any more money either. No country in the world would be foolish enough to lend the US money! Yet the answer seems to borrow still more money to fix the delicate economy. It's a delicate economy because Americans have forgotten how to balance a budget or, in Obama's case, even present a budget.

It's hard to believe that the Americans were at one time the most astute people, economically, in the world.

A general summing up.

Mark Steyn: Who will restore reality to politics? - Orange County Register
 
Has nothing to do with accusations from either side that the other side isn't fair. It has everything to do with "we owe money NOW, so are we going to pay it?".

No, you are not going to pay it. You cannot pay it and the American people, like the Western Europeans, are not prepared to make any sacrifices in order to pay it. That's just the way it is. Instead you will have inflation and increased unemployment.
 
The US is spending several billion dollars a day with money it doesn't have. They were depending on the Chinese for a while but in fact the Chinese won't lend the US any more money either. No country in the world would be foolish enough to lend the US money! Yet the answer seems to borrow still more money to fix the delicate economy. It's a delicate economy because Americans have forgotten how to balance a budget or, in Obama's case, even present a budget.

It's hard to believe that the Americans were at one time the most astute people, economically, in the world.

A general summing up.

Mark Steyn: Who will restore reality to politics? - Orange County Register

It's not a matter of borrowing. It's a matter of paying what we already owe. Would you have the United States of America be a deadbeat?
 
This is not the time for political ideologues and a "my way or the highway" approach. The economic health of the United States of America is at stake here, and while the US scrambles in a battle to avoid default on the debt, a battle which is uncertain, I consider whoever fiddles while our economy burns to be traitors.

Right now, this has turned into a battle between Wall Street and the crazies who have hijacked the Republican Party. The way I see it, if Republicans want to destroy their own party, they are on the right track to do it. But destroying America's economy, because they are not getting what they want at this time, is a morally reprehensible act, which will have dire consequences. Time to be responsible. If you (and I am talking to the jihad wing of the GOP here) want to act like babies and brats, you should do it on your own dime, and not that of your country. Just agree to raise the debt limit, and then feel free to engage in your ideological war later, during the 2012 election campaign. This is neither the time nor the place for it.

Article is here.

The irony is breathtaking.
 
It's not a matter of borrowing. It's a matter of paying what we already owe. Would you have the United States of America be a deadbeat?


do you have any idea how this works, is is your credit card analogy the depth of your knowledge.

raise the debt ceiling you say, you think we write a check, put money in an envelope
what the GOP is saying is take some of the money you are about to spend, and use that to pay the debt...

what dont you understand about that?
 
It's not a matter of borrowing. It's a matter of paying what we already owe. Would you have the United States of America be a deadbeat?


We have the money right now in tax recipts to service the debt, So cut the scare tactics will ya? I tell you what....You show me where there is not this money.


j-mac
 
do you have any idea how this works, is is your credit card analogy the depth of your knowledge.

raise the debt ceiling you say, you think we write a check, put money in an envelope
what the GOP is saying is take some of the money you are about to spend, and use that to pay the debt...

what dont you understand about that?

I don't think you get it. Money we are about to spend? Even if we don't spend it, we still need to raise the debt ceiling in order to make good on the debt we already have.
 
We have the money right now in tax recipts to service the debt, So cut the scare tactics will ya? I tell you what....You show me where there is not this money.


j-mac

This is not scare tactics from me. This is the Wall Street Journal reporting what is actually happening. Try reading the article before you post again.
 
We have the money right now in tax recipts to service the debt, So cut the scare tactics will ya? I tell you what....You show me where there is not this money.


j-mac

exactly,
what the GOP is trying to say is,

we will raise the debt ceiling say 100 million,
you show us 100 million spending cuts

you want more, show us more...lets balance this thing, the hard way, easy was is not working
 
This is not scare tactics from me. This is the Wall Street Journal reporting what is actually happening. Try reading the article before you post again.

the Wall Strret Journal, now theres an unbiased newspaper, must be true..

and again Ill ask, whats wrong with using money in the pot to pay down the debt..

from your analogy standpoint I would say its what you might tell your kid who ran up debt on his credit card but had money in his cookie jar..
what you're saying is calling the credit card company and asking for a bigger line of credit..

has to stop
 
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